Job Discussion Forums

[william wallace]

Nothing to say.

[rickinbeijing]

To the OP,

I have to agree with Roger for once (don't be shocked, Rog). While I appreciate the candor as to your intentions, money should NOT be the prime motivation for teaching in China--or anywhere for that matter.

[No Moss]

[Sinobear]

Excellent! I LOVE pumping gas, so I'll do it for 10 cents an hour!

I used to respect Roger, but now I'm convinced he's nothing more than an apologist for the exploitive recruiters. Before you get your gander up, Rog...your professed good buddy Owen Buckland hires UNQUALIFIED HOLDERS OF 'L' VISAS - telling them that they will be "coaching" English while telling the schools that they're getting English teachers. If you want to lay the bait, Rog, I'll supply the proof.

You can "exist" on 4K a month, but you cannot live on it. It's not a great salary (compared to a street cleaner that makes 100 quai a month, yes, compared to a tax-dodging, black market dealing entrepreneur it's a joke).

I make 20K a month - teaching BUT NOT EFL. When I taught EFL, I made 4K a month PART TIME in Urumqi, 8K a month (ALL BILLS PAID BY THE SCHOOL) for 12 hours a week in Fujian. How did I get this? My skills and experience COMMAND that kind of salary.

Last piece of wisdom - you're NOT Chinese, nor will you ever be. There's no point equating your salary or lifestyle to Chinese standards (Ex. a Chinese doctor does not make only $5.50 an hour in Canada because that's the "average" wage).

We have what the Chinese consumer wants - white skin (I'm not being racist, just a realist) and impartable knowledge of western customs and mores. If a business owner wants to employ me and thus capitalize on that, then he/she must willing to pay me what I would consider a decent wage.

Flame away and cheers!

[rickinbeijing]

No Moss,

You pose a false dilemma and one which, in any case, can't be answered in this specific regard since we don't know more about the OP.

Having said as much, show me a teacher whose primary motive is making money and regardless of technique I'll show you a teacher that fails on some important level.

One can be a competent teacher in the narrowest sense of the descriptor but not a great teacher if money dictates their teaching setting. As an educator and teacher evaluator of twenty years at both the tertiary and secondary levels in the U.S. and China and with a Ph.D in the field, I'll stand by these assertions. Enough said.

[No Moss]

[rickinbeijing]

No Moss,

You may be a rolling stone, but they often don't stay in one setting long enough to evaluate it thoroughly.

I know what a false dilemma is but thanks for the patronizing explanation. In fact, there ARE other angles from which to present this problem.

The only time I was concerned about making money here is when I was hired by the nation's largest EFL textbook publisher to develop and write or co-write two new series. It wasn't teaching and I don't recall saying 1600 RMB per hour for that salary (your calculation, methinks).

A professional teacher shouldn't be irked by my comments, or those of Roger and others on this thread.

[cj750]

I always go where the money is...one has to have a basis for these kind of choices....I also try and keep my contract open (release clauses) so that if another opportunity comes about then I have the legal right to go for it.....

[Roger]

Thanks everybody for their candour, and rickinbeijing for his unexpected friendly sentiments toward me.
Dilemma?Yes, I see a dilemma too.
My dilemma is that no matter what input I could make to a curriculum or a school it would never matter. They don't hire FTs per se but foreign faces. If our skills, intuition or knowledge mattered so much, we wouldn't be hired to teach "oral English".
Our greatest contributions would be to students at normal schools who in turn would get a western approach to TEFL for their own and their students' benefit. That is not the case. We get used or abused for PR purposes, and for that reason alone I would say our salaries are more than adequate - hang me, shoot me or quarter me if you like.

In regard to BUCKLAND - I know more about Owen than Sinobear does, even more unpalatable details than those inane ones he submitted to us. So what? I still stand by Owen BECAUSE THAT GUY IS NOT KNOWN TO LET YOU DOWN - unlike so many others.
This market doesn't want to honour experts; it only rewards tools. If you don't like being abused you better choose an international school with its rigours and standards that will burn you out in a couple of years. Ever thought why so many of us are stranded in the mainland of China and not working as NETs in Hong Kong? Yes, we wouldn't last long there - no one does. They are losing their FTs too because the system simply is too abrasive and unaccommodating.

[sigmoid]

[Volodiya]

One of the things I like about being part of this forum is the feedback that others give, which often expose (intentionally, or not) the inconsistencies in our thoughts and words. [I'd have recalled my last sentence, if I hadn't been travelling and away from the internet for a few days (I often use the edit feature for outbursts I consider imprudent)- so thanks, "no moss", for catching one of mine.]

(By the way, if you haven't seen the "Tiger Leaping Gorge", make the effort, everybody: it's unbelieveable.)

Improving one's lot in life is the privilege of all of us. That's how it should be: those who desire better, and can offer better, will find (or create, over time) the opportunities. I agree with "sinobear's" sentiments on this, entirely, and do pay attention myself both to doing the best job I can, and being rewarded for it.

[rickinbeijing]

Roger is right on the mark about Chinese educational administrators. They are for the most part unwilling to seriously consider much less adopt most of our suggestions for curricular reform. (Please see my new thread on this sore topic.)

Volodiya,

I think SinoBear and you are talking past Roger and I, albeit unintentionally. Let me put my contentions another way:

Those of us who are eminently qualified (as opposed to imminently qualified) deserve the highest salaries and the best students we can find. I make no issue of that.

But some who post here (I'm not implying either of you) are lucky to get 2800 RMB considering the inadequacy of their EFL training.

Regardless of one's level of training and competence, money should never be the primary motivation for teaching. That is both professionally irresponsible and unethical.

[Mysterious Mark]

[william wallace]

Nothing to say.