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malcoml
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 215
Location: Australia
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 Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 9:28 am Post subject: |
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Paulh
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| Are you going to say the Thai government is at fault for building beach resorts in the way of a tsunami? Where does the buck passing stop? |
I guessing that was directed at me. The Tsunami is a completely different situation and if can not see that well.... It is a natural disaster.
Law in regards to duty of care is very wide. In this situation when the train victims purchased a ticket they entered a contract with the train company. The train company has the duty of care. They are required to supply the passenger with safe passage. They are responsible for what their driver does if he is doing normally what is expected as a driver. This is the point that will be argued by the train company when they try to avoid paying compensation. Was the driver doing what is normally expected as a driver?
The driver has been allowed to behave like this for some time. If it is the rail company that is releasing this bad press they are shooting themselves in the foot because by saying the driver was behaving in this way and they were still continuing to employ him says that they allowed this behaviour as normal practise.
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| Where does the buck passing stop?[/ |
Well there is a large group of Us citizens that have launched a mulit billion dollar claim against a particular Arab country in regards to Sep 9/11/. The basis of the claim is that this particular country gave terrorists training grounds and funding.
That should be an indication of where it stops. |
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Cshannon
Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| Or shall we yet again find one poor easily scapegoated employee to carry the can. In this case (as it is so often so), a dead one who can't answer back. |
This is right. How can we possibly even consider murder? Murder means that the driver killed them it willfully, on purpose. How could you possibly jump to that conclusion? What a sick suggestion (to say the least...)
Of course I feel really sorry for everyone involved, but I refuse to just scapegoat the driver without any criminal evidence.
It seems it was a horrible accident plain and simple. Nobody should be held criminally accountable for that. Perhaps the driver made a horrible mistake, but people do make mistakes (unfortunate but true).
Many people were killed in a tragic accident: by labelling it "murder" you just show how quick you are to punish. And that`s really sad... |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| malcoml wrote: |
The train company has the duty of care. They are required to supply the passenger with safe passage. They are responsible for what their driver does if he is doing normally what is expected as a driver. This is the point that will be argued by the train company when they try to avoid paying compensation. Was the driver doing what is normally expected as a driver?
The driver has been allowed to behave like this for some time. If it is the rail company that is releasing this bad press they are shooting themselves in the foot because by saying the driver was behaving in this way and they were still continuing to employ him says that they allowed this behaviour as normal practise.
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Malcolm, I dont know about you, but if the largest railway company in Western Japan started bickering in court about how much compensation they have to pay after losing over 100 passengers they would have a riot on their hands. There were something like 500 passengers on that train and I doubt the relatives want to see JR wiggle out of paying for the loss of loved ones. When you add up the cost its going to be in the tens or hundreds of millions of dollars and they are already putting the residents of the building the train is under up in hotels, while they dig out those remaining inside (day 3).
I also think you assume that Japanese judges will adjudicate rationally and logically in cases like this. On many occasions they do, but the judiciary here is essentially a government mouthpiece and not that independent. A fair and impartial verdict is not guaranteed and stranger things have happened in Japanese courtrooms when reaching verdicts. Dont assume Japanese judges are like the rest of us or are like Australian judges. I assure you they aren't. |
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homersimpson
Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Posts: 569
Location: Kagoshima
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| IF you were the driver of the train, having survived such an incident, would you be able to live with yourself, knowing that you had the deaths of over 70 people on your conscience? IF yes, then what would you do to make your life bearable? |
Most 23-year-olds don't have much sense of reprecussion for their actions. Since said hypothetical 23-year-old is Japanese and strangers outside his social circle are involved, he/she probably wouldn't feel too much personally except in regard to his/her job security. |
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stillnosheep
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2068
Location: eslcafe
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: Osaka friends-are you okay? |
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| PAULH wrote: |
| stillnosheep wrote: |
| [ If you look hard enough for insensitivity you'll probably find it. |
No need. It found us no problem. How would you feel if one of your students was one of the victims? One of your neighbors? My wife told me that two students from Doshisha University were among the victims. i used to teach there. |
My connection is a little closer than that, though not immediate. My deleted post may have been ungenerous to those posters publicly assuring us of their prayers, tho' I did offer thanks to them for caring, but hardly insensitive. Insensitivity is branding some poor pressured train driver (who by the way was not reprimanded 'last month' for once overshooting a station, but in May 2003 1 month after starting at his job) a murderer. He's dead. Blame the individual all you like mate, and carry on deleting posts for aiming exactly the same words and language at peope who the poster considers (at the time of posting) as using idiotic arguments as you yourself use at those posters guilty of the same in your eyes. That's your privilege as a moderator. Enjoy. |
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canuck
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 1921
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| homersimpson wrote: |
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| IF you were the driver of the train, having survived such an incident, would you be able to live with yourself, knowing that you had the deaths of over 70 people on your conscience? IF yes, then what would you do to make your life bearable? |
Most 23-year-olds don't have much sense of reprecussion for their actions. Since said hypothetical 23-year-old is Japanese and strangers outside his social circle are involved, he/she probably wouldn't feel too much personally except in regard to his/her job security. |
Hogwash. What happened was tragic, but saying most 23-year-olds don't have much sense of reprecussion for their actions, especially of this grandeur is hogwash.
@stillnosheep: You are the weakest link. I think your comments were very insensitive. |
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