Job Discussion Forums

[Sea Sea Rider]

Usool, what's with this hang up you have about a compass point, i.e. the west?

[Gerund]

The question of whether there are human rights abuses in the west is entirely irrelevant. Of course there are. Plenty. But what idiot would suggest that NO westerner should ever criticize ANY non-western country until ALL human rights abuse in the west comes to end?

What�s being discussed is whether non-western countries are exempt from criticism of human rights abuses because these abusive practices are part of their tradition, part of their culture, part of their religion. I say no. Besides, east, west�what�s that got to do with anything? Women in Saudi Arabia are oppressed and denied basic freedoms that we take for granted, and Saudi Arabia deserves all the criticism it receives and much more. Religion is no excuse. ALL religions are nothing but superstitious nonsense anyway.

Are we to look the other way because of some silly notion that we have no right to criticize because our own house isn�t in order? NOBODY�S house will EVER be in order�that�s the way of the world�but does that mean we shouldn�t try?

As for your (predictably) long response to my post, Bebsi, I assume it�s boring and predictable, so I�m not going to read it. Don�t bother with another because I won�t read that either.

[Bebsi]

Gerund, the most tedious and predictable postings here by far are yours. On experiencing the usual poverty of rational argument which appears to be your main trait, you produced a typically insulting and offensive response that smacks of desperation and dare I say, self-loathing.

This time, you didn't just insult me and a few others, and not even just the Saudis...but about 80% of the world's population.

[usool]

Nothing wrong with generalisations, since we can not live without them. It�s not possible to exist without some form of generalisation. If somebody denies that the western world is lecturing the non-western on issues of human rights/democracy etc then perhaps they live on mars. As for Gerunds comments then how do you define a human rights abuse? I assume the rights that you take for granted here in the west, where I live, is being allowed to walk down the street semi naked, being able to sell your body for cash, a nice euphemism for porn, etc. I don�t deny that are issues in Saudi, but no more or less than in the UK, USA. It is not Saudi that has the highest rape/murder/paedophilia rates etc it is indeed the Uncles Sam�s house.

As for Bahrain and Saudis, I am aware of the ills of the Muslim world, but it�s an internal issue for Muslims to deal with. Since the vast majority of westerners have always, even before 9/11 and all that, locked themselves away in compounds and segregated themselves from the host community what right do they have to tell Saudis how to clean up their society. Forget about the huge intellectual chasm in their argument, but I've tried that route so there�s no point getting into it.

[canuqk]

Usool stated, "It is not Saudi that has the highest rape/murder/paedophilia rates etc it is indeed the Uncles Sam�s house." I'd be careful before making blanket statements from inadequate "statistics". I'm not necessarily a supporter of Uncle Sam but before you make any conclusions on comparative international crime rates please be aware that there are a number of countries where access to "truth" and information is severely restricted and as such their "official" crime rates are suspect. China, North Korea, Myammar, Sudan, Iran, and Zimbabwe are just a few examples.

[Bebsi]

I would avoid trying to bridge that chasm, Usool...you will simply fall in and disappear in a great big black void!

What you say is correct about the West and its problems. I take Canuqk's point about inaccurate statistics, but to think that stats are not meddled with by goverments in the West also, is rather naive. OK, maybe stats are less reliable from developing countries, but even so, I would be surprised if Saudi had the severe social problems that certain western countries experience, and that have reached crisis point by those countries' own admissions.

One of the significant differences between the Arab world and the West...or more accurately, the Coalition...is that the Arab world does not preach on a grand scale to the rest of the world on how to maintain its house.

Perhaps some extremist groups do, but they are not the Arab governments or people. Any support that exists for those groups among Arabs is genuinely, I believe, born out of frustration at US failure to tackle the real issues that are the root cause of the Middle-East problem, and at its support for a political entity that is commonly seen as an overt agressor in the region.

To return to the specific Saudi issue, suffice to say that if I were a Saudi, being preached-to and criticised by a group of foreigners who chose to lock themselves away in their compound community/mentality while happily taking my money, I admit that I would be rather peeved!

Thankfully, I believe that the majority of westerners do not fall into this category. Sadly, however, the minority that do, have greatly contributed to making life more difficult for everyone else in all communities. More tragically perhaps, their voluntarily casting themselves adrift on a sea of ignorance, has led to their own increased isolation and frustration.

[usool]

One of the great super intellectual arguments of westerners, like canuqk, is this. The US may have the highest rape/paedophilia/murder rates but that�s only because they are recorded. Other countries, like Saudi, probably have higher rates but they're just not recorded. Perhaps this is one of those known unknowns that Rumsfield was talking about:)

[Saudi4Ever]

anyway....
back to the subject...TAIBAH UNIVERSITY. wHAT'S UP WITH IT? aNYBODY CHECK IT OUT ?

[guty]

So are those who think westerners should leave what happens in KSA to the Saudis in favour of Muslims in the UK fighting for the legal protection of their religious practises? Or is that entirely a matter for the UK to decide?

[soitsenglishweteach]

[globalnomad]

Hi All,

Well I'm so happy that my Post as inspired such an active thread.

NOW...Could anyone PLEASE share some information about this University.

They have just posted another ad for jobs in their English Dept.

Anyone KNOW ANYTHING about this place.

Thx

[Ahmed_ONLINE]

I don't see any trace of the University on web except for their recent ad. I suggest you should submit your C.V and wait till they call you for the interview. You may get some more info about the Univ in the meantime.
Don't worry so much about the place. I can assure you it's not a bad place for a (global) nomad!!!

[Mark100]

"Oppression of women in Saudi? I agree, there is not enough porn, prostitution and paedophilia. But lets not worry, the west will teach them these freedoms soon, they shall be liberated. They will be taught the benefits of a society where rape occurs every 8 seconds, where children are routinely sexually abused. Yes, the women in the Middle East will soon learn that walking the streets semi naked is indeed a more self respecting and intelligent way of living. I bet they can�t wait"

Mate you appear to know very little about the real Saudi Arabia.

Every net cafe you enter has people logging onto porn in Saudi.
Many houses have satellite porn.
Rape, incest, sexually abused women are all huge problems in saudi that often go unreported.
Drug abuse is also a major issue of concern.
The real Saudi is a very dark place for many people without many of the legal rights that we take for granted in the west.
Go and live in Saudi for an extended period of time and learn what really goes on there. It is frightening. Educated Saudis will tell you themselves that the place is still in the dark ages.
The west has many issues there is no denying that but at least they are relatively open and honest societies.
The Middle East has all the same problems and worse but will not admit them or face them.

[veiledsentiments]

Oh please... haven't we kicked this dead horse of an argument around enough? Why don't you fellows debate this by PM.

Let's stick to the topic of Taibah University.

VS

[Mark100]

VS

If you don't like it nobody is asking you to respond to it.