Job Discussion Forums

Taishan · Joined: 30 Oct 2003 Posts: 110

Volodiya, first let met state, that I am not interested in getting into an argument with you, as you are clear and straight-forward, but a little too serious, but you really seem to want to clear the nonsense away. I am on my guard however because Talkdoc was just like you but became stranger and stranger over time and made me think that he was another persona of Ludwig, which I hope you are not.

Now where I am is 'small city' China the fines for running right lights in a car in my city are less than 10USD!

I'm not in Shanghai, Beijing or even anywhere even as nice as Ningbo, I'm currently a legal foreigner on all correct residency permits and was referring to a period when I was first here in China, in this city.

I can tell you that where I am working on a business visa is not a problem, as this is considered a grey area, and so is for all perposes legal and there is no aberration as regards to the school not having the right to emlploy foreigners, if they had the right to employ you they would put you on a residency permit, yes?.

My whole time in China I've never been told that an 'F' visa is illegal except on Daves Esl and by foreigners that read these warped forums and had a snobbish attitude because they had a 'proper' 'Z' visa. As far as Police, Immigration and Foreign Embassy staff have behaved towards me from my own experience when I had an 'F' visa was that it was perfectly legal over a short period of time, no contradictions.

Volodiya · Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:37 pm Post subject:

Thanks, Taishan, for further fleshing out your situation for us. Your post is a nice response to my request for information about what is actually happening in the field.

I have no reason to believe that what you described is not the accepted practice there, based on your experience; but, on this question, where the bulk of opinion was so strongly against the idea of working on an F visa just two months ago, I'm taking a cautious approach. We'll see if others have found things to be similar where they are- that is, for short term work (less than six months), nothing further than an F visa, and registration of your place of residence with the PSB, is the usual practice.*

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* So as not to mislead anyone, let me say there are a good many other issues involved, as well. Just to name a few, the question of whether the employer is the same party that issued the visa invitation on which the F visa was based; and, whether the school itself is licensed to hire foreign teachers- either one of which could render a process that might otherwise have been fine, to be out of compliance with Chinese Law.

mandu · Joined: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 794 Location: china

i also work on an F visa have done for the last 2 years.I live in Shenzhen and have had know problems so far.many people i know here in Shenzhen are on F visa.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

I think we covered this before: F visas can be legal Simplifying it, let's put it in this nutshell:
if your employer obtains an 'F' visa from the local PSB then it is legal; but if you buy an 'F' visa from a travel agent in HK you are not legal.

Volodiya · Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 4:16 am Post subject:

W.V. Orman · Joined: 05 Jul 2005 Posts: 69

Volodiya, if you are working on an "F" visa, and your employer is not licensed by the government to employ foreign teachers, is your employment contract enforceable?

Volodiya · Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:57 am Post subject:

It seems to me that the employer having permission to hire foreigners is the starting point in any discussion of what constitutes legal employment in China.

In the posts to this forum in which a teacher has had some legal action taken against them, it has almost always involved a situation in which the teacher was working for an organization, or school, that did not have permission to hire foreigners. I would think a contract of employment with such an organization would be unenforceable for this reason alone, making the visa status ("F") irrelevant.

nolefan · Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Posts: 1458 Location: on the run

Volodiya · Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:49 am Post subject:

Nolefan, I hate to take exception, but as far as a statement of the law goes- whether the world is imperfect, or perfect- my statement is either true of Chinese Law, or it is not. (I meant it to mean that an employer licensed to hire foreigners is one of the requirements for lawful employment, in China, and a prerequisite to the process leading to the issuance of an FEC and an RPF.) There is often a disconnect between the law and the application of the law, that's why I always stress that we should look at both, in coming to any conclusions. Our posters are a resource for information about how the law is applied, across the country.

On a personal note, when I first began looking at questions related to Chinese Law and the FT, your posts were a resource for me.