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KID CASTLE KINDERGARTEN, TIANJIN=HILARIOUS
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mmm... pancakes

Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 92

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 3:54 pm Post subject:

Do your students need to know anything beyond "sit down" "stand up" and "be quiet" in order to be disciplined? If my students are at their desks and one student is being naughty, then they stand up. If they continue, they get a teacher in their face, which always makes the others laugh. If they still continue they stand outside the classroom for a few minutes. I just take their hand and they follow, then they stand there and I say "stand up, be quiet," then point to my watch and say "two" or however many minutes they are to stand there. Easy peasy, though my classes aren't strictly-disciplined or anything (by choice). My point is, it only takes three short phrases to get the message across.

benno

Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 501
Location: Fake Mongolia

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:47 pm Post subject:

vikdk wrote:

Having a loa wai in the classroom is the closest a lot of your students have come to setting foot abroad, and just our presence � regardless of how many assistants we use, has the potential to create that kind of positive experience that encourages and motivates the student to want to learn English.
.

this is funny
come off it will you..."our presence"...
chinese students...on the whole...dont give two flying fcuks about english or western culture...its a means to an end...get their silly CET or whatever and get their "tour guide" jobs (thats the height of their ambition!) or get into Uni

thats why i was wondering if you were in china...from my exp here i havent really seen much motivation or willingness from my students

or what about the cram schools and how foreign teachers are treated like mules /dancing monkeys...only good for bringing in money to the fat cats or giving much needed face...etc
education...here? that is a joke!!!

maybe you have different students!!! Very Happy

vikdk

Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 2:14 am Post subject:

Benno maybe I'm a different type of teacher - with a different type of attitude With the type of tired xenophobic comments you spewed out in your last post, you sound all burnt out - maybe you've had enough Hey seriously, I know that 99% of all so called teaching establishments here are bum joints, and for anyone teaching in such a place, the last thing they want to read is my idealistic psuedo professional piffle - but if we don't at least hold a semi-positive attitude towards our students then were doing nobody a favor - most of all ourselves. The only people who win in the end are the money grabbing gangmasters who happen to be our bosses - being positive and professional is one way of trying to wring a few more dimes out of them

benno

Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 501
Location: Fake Mongolia

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 2:29 am Post subject:

vikdk wrote:

Benno maybe I'm a different type of teacher - with a different type of attitude Razz

With the type of tired xenophobic comments you spewed out in your last post, you sound all burnt out - maybe you've had enough Crying or Very sad

Hey seriously, I know that 99% of all so called teaching establishments here are bum joints, and for anyone teaching in such a place, the last thing they want to read is my idealistic psuedo professional piffle - but if we don't at least hold a semi-positive attitude towards our students then were doing nobody a favor - most of all ourselves. The only people who win in the end are the money grabbing gangmasters who happen to be our bosses - being positive and professional is one way of trying to wring a few more dimes out of them Twisted Evil

actually i enjoy teaching...its something i consider myself quite good at (i knew there was something!!)..
but if i am honest i dont think im getting much joy here from what i do...maybe i should replace dour chinese students with mexican/polish students...im sure i could have livlier classes

i am the type of teacher...if i like the class i will give all my energy...if the class is full of knuckle heads we'll hell i dont care!!!

and yes you are right...maybe its time i moved on....

Roger

Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:06 am Post subject:

vikdk wrote:

Money talks here the loudest, not the owner of the mouth and fingers that typedf this dribble. Not only are our bosses "gangmasters" and, of course, tycoons, so are some of our peers, most notably the poster of the above quote.

At least he succeeds brilliantly in hiding his own xenophobia behind an impenetrable wall of self-legitimisation.

KES

Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 722

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:15 am Post subject:

Roger:

Quote:

Money talks here the loudest, not the owner of the mouth and fingers that typedf this dribble.

Or mistyped, as the case may be.

rocknroll

Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 41

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:38 pm Post subject:

mm...pancakes well I do that too.Thanks anyways. I have really naughty lot and they are Junior School students so it's like they understand more but still wouldn't listen.I had good expereince and horrible expreince with this age group. Sorry kind of hijacking this thread with my queries.

vikdk

Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:04 pm Post subject:

sorry folks - I know i should ignore him, but I really have to reply to that last Roger gem. I don�t mind you accusing me of being xenophobic � since hardcore China is bound to make even the strongest of us feel a tad xenophobic now and again � that was a logical insult But how the beeping hell can you accuse me of being a gangmaster???? Do you think I run a sweatshop full of underpaid workers. No sorry roger I�m just an ordinary teacher � I don�t employ anyone � but if you�re willing, I�d love to be your gangmaster baby

Roger

Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 5:32 am Post subject:

vikdk wrote:

I don�t mind you accusing me of being xenophobic �

But how the beeping hell can you accuse me of being a gangmaster???? , I�d love to be your gangmaster baby Twisted Evil

So you admit to being xenophobic?
Why then accuse others of being it?

As for that gem of yours "accusing you of being a gangmaster" - that must be a Freudian slip. Thus you are even owning up to being a "tycoon", which again is in contradiction with your claim to being a "teacher".

The bad news is I am not hiring 'gangmasters', baby; I have no need for them, nor for you!

vikdk

Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:47 am Post subject:

duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Roger - I think I'm falling in love with you

juliagirl

Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 69
Location: California

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 11:16 am Post subject:

Okay, I know the school is cheesy, but I have to ask: What is the higest reported salary for a teacher at Kid Castle? I have an interview with them in the morning..... Don't worry, I also have an interview with a fantastic school in the afternoon.... I just want to be informed........

noi

Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 21

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:04 am Post subject:

For Tsarevich3

Repetition for your absent-minded self:

Quote:

As for your theory where mentally deficient children should be taught amongst normal children— you must be kidding. Such children can not keep up with the rhythm of an ESL class. Such people require far more interaction and attention. Pretending they are “just like the others” may be great for their parents’ ego, but it doesn’t help the child much.
Nobody said deficients should be “segregated” from society (how you read that between the lines is beyond us) but rather the contrary, given an environment where they can develop their full potential, just like any other child.
Perhaps you are from a Third World country and thus do not know that Europeans and North Americans have long discovered that people with special needs shockingly require... special treatment.
Would you put a sighted child in a group of blind children?
It seems you make confusion and group into one physically and mentally handicapped children. Physically challenged people have full mental capacity and can learn at a normal pace, whereas retarded children can not.”

Comprehensible enough?

Ambiguous?
Ambiguous indeed…

If in the USA mentally retarded children are being kept in the same lass with those without deficiencies. No wonder that the American education system is confronted with so many problems.
Maybe you are even one of those supporting the creationism theory to be taught in the public schools!

The term "mental retardation" is often misunderstood and seen as derogatory. Some think that retardation is diagnosed only on the basis of below-normal intelligence (IQ), and that persons with mental retardation are unable to learn or to care for themselves. Actually, in order to be diagnosed as a person with mental retardation, the person has to have both significantly low IQ and considerable problems in everyday functioning. Most children with mental retardation can learn a great deal, and as adults can lead partially independent lives. Most individuals with mental retardation have only a mild level of mental retardation. Mental retardation may be complicated by several different physical and especially emotional problems. The child may also have difficulty with motor ability, audition, sight or speech.

We consider that these children can do well in their lives if taken care properly.

We know that mental retardation (MR) is the most common developmental disability and ranks first among chronic conditions causing major activity limitations among persons in the United States
In 1993, an estimated 1.5 million persons aged 6-64 years in the United States had MR.
We wonder what is the number in 2005…Think of a few of the possible reasons.

Most of the rest of the world has different approaches when coming to education for children with special needs.

We do not consider that special units/classes/schools go against children with special needs.
We are not talking about the medieval type seclusion institutions, so widely spread all over the world one hundred years ago, where such children were abandoned by their families and they were forgotten there until they died, living in cruel conditions having nothing to do with self improvement or education.

Those days are gone.

Civilized society, in the meanwhile, has discovered proper methods for such children, and created special trained personnel for such children.

A child with motor deficiency needs a special care. Imagine that a child like this is in the same class with non-disabled children, during the sport class…That child would feel abandoned and he/she would be hurt.

Deaf and hearing impaired children need the sign language to communicate, no? Put them in a mainstream class, would you?

Many children suffering from Autistic Spectrum Disorders, put in a normal class, are usually considered “lazy”, “savage” and, thus, are ignored. Such an attitude aggravates these children’s situation. We are certain that, as a teacher, even if not by profession, you know that these children were, for many years, simply ignored in the classroom, ridiculed and ostracized because they were never considered children with special needs.
Early identification is extremely important, as you might know.

Children with SEN (Special Educational Needs) develop a large variety of behaviours, very difficult to deal with in mainstream schools.
For many disabilities you need special equipment, specific teaching material, usually one-on-one contact. A special curriculum is also required.
Speech and language therapists have unique knowledge and understanding of the process of developing skills in speech, language and communications. Teachers also have a unique understanding of learning skills and how to differentiate the curriculum in schools to enable children to access learning to ensure they reach their full potential.

Why can’t people simply get rid of their ego and accept reality?
There are special entrances, public phones, toilets etc for physically disabled people. WHY? Because they need special attention. And the society recognizes this. And respects them. We should think in the same way and treat people with other types of disabilities with respect and care.

Or, should we deprive them of these special attentions and treat them as if they wouldn’t need them?

People should think more about these children’s needs than about their own ego as parents or for the sake of being PC. It is not a shame to admit that there are people with SEN in your family, country or society. It is a shame to pretend that they do not need special care.
Maybe it is easier to send them to a mainstream school than creating schools and educators for them? It is less costly…less complicated.

In Japan:
The overall aim in Sweden is “A School for All” (No child left behind?). This means that there are no special schools for children with special needs. Most often they attend their homeschool in the municipality.
Though, for children who are deaf or hard hearing, there are 6 special schools (Specialskolemyndigheten) in Sweden. For children with severe learning disabilities there is a school in each municipality

In Japan:
The earliest examples on record of special classes for feeble children as set up at elementary schools were those set up at Tsurumaki Elementary School at Ushigome in Tokyo in the spring of 1926, and at Kojimachi Elementary School in Tokyo in 1927. Each year thereafter the number of such special classes increased as they were set up in elementary schools in large cities such as Tokyo, Osaka, Kobe, Okayama and Fukuoka. By 1927 there were eighteen schools and 27 special classes in operation throughout the country. The number of special classes increased to 87 by 1932 and to 146 by 1934 accommodating a total of 8,028 children.
In accordance with the instructions of October, 1929, the Ministry of Education urged that school nurses be assigned to kindergartens and elementary schools, and beginning in 1931 training courses for the personnel of facilities for feeble children were held annually.

As about learning a second language for disabled children, there are different opinions.
Two questions frequently asked by parents and other people concerned with the mentally retarded are :

1- whether it is reasonable or advisable to expose mentally retarded children to developmental contexts and learning situations involving two languages, and
2- if yes, what language benefits could be expected in the medium and long terms?

In the literature on bilingualism and subjects with mentally retarded on which to base some recommendations one might find a few positions.

“It may be acceptable and perhaps useful to start bilingual education with mildly retarded children only a few years later than with normally developing children (say around a chronological age of 8 or 9 years. The situation, however, looks completely different when moderately and severely retarded individuals are taken into consideration. For these subjects, first-language acquisition is a strenuous, lengthy, and difficult endeavor, and it requires many years and much effort before they can attain a restricted productive and receptive capacity. So it would be extremely hazardous to risk systematic second-language training - let alone a complete immersion program - before late adolescence and without a favorable environment and maximum help from family and school . . . This is not to say that, if social circumstances make second-language learning necessary, a number of useful and functional vocabulary items and simple idiomatic structures could not be learned by moderately and severely retarded children....In this case, the only additional thing to teach the retarded subjects would be to discriminate between those situations that call for using items X from language X and those calling for the use of items Y from language Y. This represents a simple case of discriminative learning of which most moderately and severely retarded subjects should be quite capable. (…)
It can be added that mentally retarded children and adults with some degree of bilingualism have had a variety of learning experiences. Some were raised in bilingual homes and have been exposed to two languages from birth (simultaneous bilingualism). They are reported as usually having more productive vocabulary and syntax in the language most frequently used in the family, while showing good comprehension of the other language.”
( Jean A. Rondal, Laboratoire de Psycholinguistique, Universit� de Li�ge -Belgium)

In China, many schools claim to be using the Montessori Method, but when questioning the teachers about it, they have no idea about Montessori methods.
Maria Montessori opened her first Casa dei Bambini (Children's House) in 1907, applying to children of normal intelligence the methods and materials she had developed for deficient children. She also spent a great deal of time observing and meditating on what children did with her materials—what brought out their best learning and their greatest enthusiasm.
By the way, one of the Montessori chapters suggests the periodically adjusting of the classroom furniture (size).
Never seen this is China.

Not everybody saw Maria Montessori as a leading mind in education.

The Montessori System Examined, a small but highly influential book published in 1914 by Professor William Heard Kilpatrick came with another attitude.
Before that, in the USA Maria Montessori was practically unknown. This book brought her name into the American public’s attention.
In his time, Kilpatrick was one of the most popular professors at Columbia University's Teachers College, an institution with far-ranging influence among educational theorists and one of the main redoubts for John Dewey's Progressive method of education.

Dewey and Montessori approached education from philosophically and psychologically different perspectives. Dewey's concern was with fostering the imagination and the development of social relationships. He believed in developing the intellect late in childhood, for fear that it might stifle other aspects of development. By contrast, Montessori believed that development of the intellect was the only means by which the imagination and proper social relationships could arise. Her method focused on the early stimulation and sharpening of the senses, the development of independence in motor tasks and the care of the self, and the child's naturally high motivation to learn about the world as a means of gaining mastery over himself and his environment.

Thus, behind Kilpatrick's criticism of Montessori's educational method lay a great deal of antagonism towards Montessori's philosophy and psychology. Kilpatrick dismissed Montessori's sensorial materials because they were based on what he considered to be an outdated theory of the faculties of the mind (Dewey was greatly influenced by early Behaviorism) and a too-early development of the intellect. Kilpatrick also criticized Montessori's materials as too restrictive: because they have a definite outcome, he felt, they restrict the child's imagination. Following Dewey's collectivist view of man, and his central focus on the social development of the child, Kilpatrick also disliked Montessori's decidedly individualistic view of the child.

Tsarevich3 , you keep talking about what is called “The Inclusion Movement” (this is the term, in case you didn’t know) that seems to be very fashionable in the USA.

The New York Institute for Special Education, serving learners with special needs since 1831, is helping children who are blind or visually disabled, emotionally and learning disabled and preschoolers who are developmentally delayed.
Is it a crime? Are those people who try to help such children bigots? Narrow-minded? Are they the advocates of “apartheid”?
Roger knows better.
Don’t you, Roger?

We strongly reject the Inclusion Method, exactly because we care for the MR children. It is not a shame to send them to special schools, with specially trained educators.
We consider that society, forcing them to attend mainstream schools, simply disregards them as human beings with special needs for attention and care.
We understand that financing special schools in the USA is less important than financing an invasion…

We repeat a question: Would you put a sighted child in a group of visually impaired children?

As about TPR, we consider this method as being suitable for MR children, in order to grasp a few words per month…

Roger, for your information, we never needed an assistant to discipline the class because, if the FT can’t do it, there is huge question mark about her/his capacity to control the class. And we do not rely upon an assistant. The problem is that, if you are a real educator, you want to communicate with your learners, and then, you need the assistant.
When we taught middle school children, we had an assistant, but her English was worse than that of the pupils’. In the kindergarten it is absolutely necessary to have a good translator and we saw the difference between the results achieved in a class with an assistant and in one without.
As about the assistant in order to translate, yes, we consider it very important when we want to tell the children a story, explain grammar, or simply talk with the children. The assistant’s role, during our classes, is to help us have a high interaction with our kids. To communicate.
We are sure that you understand the meaning of this term.

The so-called assistants in the Kid Castle classes are simply some sort of servants for the FT (they bring the teaching material, prepare it etc). Humiliating. Disrespectful.

We won’t disclose our teaching methods here, since we are writing a book about this subject.
What we can say is that, using our methods, our learners were not singing songs and were definitely not asking questions without knowing the meaning of each word.
This means learning, and not endless robotic repetition so much liked by many schools and parents. Or indolent FTs.

We like to give our learners a background for what we teach them. We teach them “rain”, we tell them things about rain. We teach them “lion”, we tell them things about lions.
It is a double gain: they understand the word and they can remember it easily connecting it with something that they were told in Chinese.
Teaching young children “words” without a background is less effective.

We never needed teaching material from the schools. We worked hours and hours during our free time to create what the class level needed. The schools even copied our methods.
We were happy to help and to really give something to these children, more than just a foreign face in front of the classroom.
Our responsibly as FTs is not only English teaching and advertising the school!
We were there teachers, parents and friends. We didn’t go to China to take advantage of this re-born society and fill them with “western culture”.
We always tried to make them understand that their first duty is preserving what they have: the specificity of their culture.
Many foreigners go to China as missionaries. We are not there to transform the Chinese children into “western” children.
This is something you should think about.

Tsarevich3 , we sincerely hope that the school is going to give you a bonus for your defending this institution…TPR is surely helping you a lot when dealing with children 3-6 years old in the same classroom! Brilliant concept to put them in one and the same class, isn’t it?

Don McChesney, we hope that you‘ll have a similar experience together with your spouse or girlfriend, if you have one. And maybe, after that, you would have second thoughts about using: “It may help you to understand the sorry story”…

Roger, we do have “rigidly set” opinions when it comes to discipline, respect, quality, professionalism, common-sense, decency, honour etc.
We do have “rigidly set” opinions when it comes to teachers wearing flip-flops in the class, men wearing pink clothes, eating with open mouth, picking your noses, showing your underwear, dating your students …
Roger:”Two: noi wants "retarded" kids to be segregated! Apartheid in the school - halleluja!”
YOU are the one using these words…
Roger:“He has never experienced stigmatising except as an inept FT in China, perhaps.”

Our professionalism was never questioned. On the contrary.
We do not think that if you leave the school, 400 pupils out of 1500 are going to leave too. Like in our case.

If there is anyone “inept” here, their identity is obvious.

cj750, we cleaned the filthy floor in our apartment and were waxing it. So, were we prepared to stay or to go?
Tricky question, isn’t it?

The term “mental retardation” has changed nine times in the past 100 years in the USA. Intellectual disability is used in the British Commonwealth countries.
“Wisdom begins by calling things by their right name” says an old Chinese proverb.
The syntagma will surely change very soon, in order to meet people’s requirements.
Or, to be more PC than ever.
Is such an individual ready to vote? Is such an individual ready to have a family and the adjacent responsibilities? Can such a person drive a car?
There is research that shows that students with the most significant disabilities benefit academically and socially in a classroom and a curriculum that is adapted and modified to help them be successful in school. Some learning activities may be best presented away from the chaos of a general education classroom.
Intellectually disabled children need a warm, caring environment. They need a classroom with a family like atmosphere.
This is what we think and the future development of the society will prove it.

We are happy that, during our living in China, we avoided any contact with FTs. Thus, we didn’t have to meet people like many of those on this forum.
No wonder that many of you are so sour. Hanging around with sour minds, you end up by being like them.

Despite the terrible moments we experienced in China, we didn’t become vinegary.
There is something that China was not able to do in our case: to brainwash us.
What China obviously did in many cases.

We noticed that everybody seems to be blind concerning Kid Castle’s behaviour and people start questioning our… teaching abilities!?

We’d like to see you paying a truck to move your belongings, start unpacking and cleaning the apartment, when the school informs you that it was a mistake with the faxes… and that you have to leave…
Poor innocent Chinese, aren’t they?

As about our experience with the police, yes, it was traumatizing, since we are not used to such things.
Some of the FTs seem to be blind at such an event. Maybe they became immune… maybe, back at home, they have a police history, changed their names and came to China to teach…
Yes, it was a terrible experience for us and we won’t minimize it only because some sour FTs on this forum behave like brainwashed people.

So, Tsarevich3, try to be objective and don’t forget that the last tsar/tzar was executed by the Bolsheviks in 1918. Be careful with your school.

vikdk, we appreciate the lucidity you bring to the forum. If there were more people of your caliber here, this place would be a valuable resource for everybody, veterans of beginners. We are on the same barricade.

Some read between the lines that we are afraid of the poor… well, yes, we are. We wouldn’t have the courage to live in a ghetto… would you?
Yes, we do not think that for a FT is proper to live in an area with very poor Chinese. It is not safe. Even some Chinese people told us this; it is quite strange that you, as FTs, don’t know this.
To live in a building without a front door and with the apartment front door as thin as cardboard… that was definitely not a place for us.
We lived in safe districts, with guards and interphones, and this is what we like. Clean staircase with clean walls, not full of dirty objects, shoes, furniture, brooms…
Our living standards are high indeed.

Some friends work in South Africa. Where do you think that their company prepared their accommodation? In a camera supervised building, surrounded by walls and armed guards. Why? Because this is life and this is the reality they face. They never venture in the centre of the city on foot.
If we close our eyes and we pretend that such a reality does not exist, is this going to change anything?

And, if cleaning the dishes in the bathroom sink is not acceptable for us, we do not apologize.
We are not racist, but what is luxury for someone from Africa, India or Pakistan or whatever might not even be acceptable for us.

We read on the forum about FT having lice, venereal diseases etc…
FTs with high living standards…?
“Teachers”?!

Roger

Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:30 am Post subject:

noi wrote:

In China, many schools claim to be using the Montessori Method, but when questioning the teachers about it, they have no idea about Montessori methods.
.
By the way, one of the Montessori chapters suggests the periodically adjusting of the classroom furniture (size).
Never seen this is China.

Not everybody saw Maria Montessori as a leading mind in education.

The New York Institute for Special Education, serving learners with special needs since 1831, is helping children who are blind or visually disabled, emotionally and learning disabled and preschoolers who are developmentally delayed.
Is it a crime? Are those people who try to help such children bigots? Narrow-minded? Are they the advocates of �apartheid�?
Roger knows better.
Don�t you, Roger?

We strongly reject the Inclusion Method, exactly because we care for the MR children. It is not a shame to send them to special schools, with specially trained educators.
We repeat a question: Would you put a sighted child in a group of visually impaired children?

As about TPR, we consider this method as being suitable for MR children, in order to grasp a few words per month�

Roger, for your information, we never needed an assistant to discipline the class because, if the FT can�t do it, there is huge question mark about her/his capacity to control the class. The problem is that, if you are a real educator, you want to communicate with your learners, and then, you need the assistant.
When we taught middle school children, we had an assistant, but her English was worse than that of the pupils�. In the kindergarten it is absolutely necessary to have a good translator and we saw the difference between the results achieved in a class with an assistant and in one without.
As about the assistant in order to translate, yes, we consider it very important when we want to tell the children a story, explain grammar, or simply talk with the children. The assistant�s role, during our classes, is to help us have a high interaction with our kids. To communicate.
We are sure that you understand the meaning of this term.

We won�t disclose our teaching methods here, since we are writing a book about this subject.
This means learning, and not endless robotic repetition so much liked by many schools and parents. Or indolent FTs.

We were happy to help and to really give something to these children, more than just a foreign face in front of the classroom.
Our responsibly as FTs is not only English teaching and advertising the school!
We were there teachers, parents and friends. We didn�t go to China to take advantage of this re-born society and fill them with �western culture�.
We always tried to make them understand that their first duty is preserving what they have: the specificity of their culture.
Many foreigners go to China as missionaries. We are not there to transform the Chinese children into �western� children.
This is something you should think about.

Roger, we do have �rigidly set� opinions when it comes to discipline, respect, quality, professionalism, common-sense, decency, honour etc.
We do have �rigidly set� opinions when it comes to teachers wearing flip-flops in the class, men wearing pink clothes, eating with open mouth, picking your noses, showing your underwear, dating your students �
Roger:�Two: noi wants "retarded" kids to be segregated! Apartheid in the school - halleluja!�
YOU are the one using these words�
Roger:�He has never experienced stigmatising except as an inept FT in China, perhaps.�

Our professionalism was never questioned. On the contrary.
We do not think that if you leave the school, 400 pupils out of 1500 are going to leave too. Like in our case.

If there is anyone �inept� here, their identity is obvious.

We read on the forum about FT having lice, venereal diseases etc�
FTs with high living standards�?
�Teachers�?!

I have 3 observaqtions to make:
1. You are talking to an inordinate extent about "mentally retarded" kids. Did we focus on them? I thought we were discussing kindergarten teaching styles primarily.
I do continue to think your suggested apartheid is counterproductive although I would agree that some pupils do need special attention. Whether they can get that in an all-=inclusive classroom or only in a dedicated class I don't know; you are obviously subscribing to some rules set in stone, your particular brand of BIble, I suppose. And sometimes such Bibles are helpful indeed.
My problem with this approach is this: who decides whether a child is "MR"? You? A physician? A psychologist? OR the parents?
I doubt the Chinese medical establishment is up to such a challenging task, and I doubt much more that parents would accept such a verdict on their one and only little darling!

2. The Montessori approach: you gave a broad and relatively informative picture of Montessori but you didn't tell us the relevancy in this context. Montessori signs do appear on walls and over doors of many kindergartens here, and you are perfectly right in saying that they do not necessarily have the teachers with a specific Montessori training. The only registered Montessori school that trains kindergarten teachers is, I believe, in Hong Kong.
Why was Maria Montessori so successful in her days? Because a century earlier, the Italian, and indeed many countires of the western world, were rigid, class-conscious, heavily stratified societies much like COnfucian China still is (or is again after half a century of communist-imposed pseudo-egalitarianism). Traditionalism thrived, family values were revered exactly as they are in Japan, Korea and China to this day. This hampered individual freedom-loving people's aspirations and it thwarted their minds and their imagination. For kids up to university level, life was about learning how to obey, how to reward one's family for rearing one and how to serve the fatherland. This is where Montessori stepped in. In the U.S.A. some held against Maria Montessori that she had Fascist Party affiliations at some time of her life.
\But in the West, Montessorians are not the only kindergarten teaching pioneers, and the Montessorians are not necessarily at the vanguard any more. They have a philosophy, yes, but no organised structure that ties in all Montessorians. It is basically a free-for all.
THus I would say any kindergarten instructor ought to be familiar with Montessorian pedagogy, but as for approaches and teaching styles they should look elsewhere for more enlightenement.

3. Classroom and classroom "assistants":
I am somewhat surprised by some of your statements, but I assume they fit in with doctrines handed down to you by your teaching church.
One was that in a kindergarten you don't need any disciplinarian apart from the FT himself or herself. You tell us if discipline breaks down it is entirely the FT's fault. I beg to differ!

If those little kids don't cooperate it is not only because the FT is "inept" as you so delicately put it; it is to a large degree because these kids have not learnt to behave under circumstances such as these when an extra effort is required from them in order to learn from a member of a different culture. Blame that in part on the environment - including the parents of these kids and the teachers there.
Having said this, I wish to add that I can easily handle kindergarten kids without using their mother tongue. The effectiveness of a FT's instruction should be measured not so much by whether he or she can convey - with accurate translation - the sharp arrows that tranquiliise noisy and hyperactive toddlers - but whether the kids obey and react to his or her English commands and instructions adequately.
If you need a translator I feel you are not up to the task of teaching in a foreign classroom - either because the students haven't been brought up to that level, or because you fail to use appropriate means to force your students to cooperate. In my view, kindergarten kids don't need translation at all. They are still acquiring their mother tongue; translation is, therefore, a capricious attempt at bridging a gap with no foundations laid on either side. HOw do these children grow their mother tongue? How has it been put in place? Their mothers have to communicate with them without recourse to an artificial aide such as "translation". The kid and her mother have to develop a language; the same can be done between a FT and kids learning their second language.

And here is a personal remark:
You sound pretty "professional, but at the same time I am led to think you are unable to view your own theology with anything other than total submission and blind belief.
Is it, perhaps, possible for you to question a few wisdoms in the structure of your philosophy? C'est le ton qui fait la musqie - especially if you believe we all accept, as blindly as you, that your own religion is the only gate to Heaven, and that the rest who do not follow you are heretics!

mmm... pancakes

Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 92

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:43 am Post subject:

Roger wrote:

The effectiveness of a FT's instruction should be measured not so much by whether he or she can convey - with accurate translation - the sharp arrows that tranquiliise noisy and hyperactive toddlers - but whether the kids obey and react to his or her English commands and instructions adequately.
If you need a translator I feel you are not up to the task of teaching in a foreign classroom ...

noi wrote:

Roger, for your information, we never needed an assistant to discipline the class because, if the FT can�t do it, there is huge question mark about her/his capacity to control the class. And we do not rely upon an assistant.
As about the assistant in order to translate, yes, we consider it very important when we want to tell the children a story, explain grammar, or simply talk with the children. The assistant�s role, during our classes, is to help us have a high interaction with our kids. To communicate.
We are sure that you understand the meaning of this term.

(Both edited for brevity.)
Roger, you and noi seem to be saying the same thing. It's just that noi is adding that for extra communication's sake, a teaching assistant can be helpful.

Roger wrote:

...I am led to think you are unable to view your own theology with anything other than total submission and blind belief.
Is it, perhaps, possible for you to question a few wisdoms in the structure of your philosophy?

More people than noi could learn from this.

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