Job Discussion Forums

jeffinflorida · Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 3:12 am Post subject:

24 periods were 50 minutes each. It was alot and I got Wednesdays off. But the day had NO sleeping time for the university children. They got lunch at 11:50 and back in the classroom at 1pm. They hated that. We loved it.

All the FTs in this area talk and we have a Yahoo email newsletter. An FT that has been here a while recommended that we ask no less than 150rmb an hour and stay closer to 200rmb an hour for side work. Seeing there are not really that many FTs in this area - maybe 20 or so - it was easy to discuss this subject and come to an informal agreement.

In the new university I am at there are 3 FTs. The school GAVE us overtime classes without discussing it and it is not mentioned in our contract. My base is 12 hours a week here and I really did not want OT. The 3 FTs got together and we decided that the school had to pay better for the OT. The school offered 60 rmb for a period of OT. We said no 100 rmb a period was acceptable. The school said no, 60 rmb a period was what they are paying. We ALL said NO. None of us are doing OT classes and the school is in a bind. They can not find another teacher and the Chinese teachers are doing these classes.

I do feel bad for the students because we all know they will not learn proper English from a Chinese teacher.

So do I carry a card from Local 707 Teamsters... No, but working together with the FTs in your school and city does work wonders!

However, maybe Jimmy Hoffa Jr. would like to start something here in China for us...

Volodiya · Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:41 am Post subject:

I think it's pretty well established, just from the few posts to this thread, that those who want to earn more, find ways to earn more. 10-12,000 is clearly within reach; some make more. A lot depends on what you set as your target. I think it's fair to say that getting offered more than you say you require is going to be rare.

Earning more takes time, and the opportunities that time reveals. Some on this thread have spoken of "three years" it seems to me. That can vary, but it takes time to develop a reputation and for word to get around about how good you may be. Then, the work will find you. Better to have the reputation, "expensive, but good", if you want to earn a fair return on your time.

sigmoid · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 1276

My point is [ever was and always shall be] that in the "World's Fastest Growing Economy" 'big' salaries of at least 8000 rmb or whatever the equivalent of a thousands bucks is now should be the standard minimum base for 12 - 15 hours. At least for experienced and professional teachers. China is not the most appealing destination for most of us, but if they weren't so stingy more folks might be interested in teaching there. Cool

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Volodiya · Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:08 am Post subject:

People around the world seek advancement in their work and in their salaries. One of the chief complaints regarding working, long-term, in TEFL, is the low pay (as in China, where the equivalent of $500 USD/month is commonplace).

Teaching English can be a very satisfying occupation. Finding a way around the low salaries is the key to long-term satisfaction. It's not that hard, in most places, including China, to earn more.

There will always be those who, for any number of reasons, disparage those who make more, or want to make more. Let them. They don't actually hinder anyone- except, perhaps, those who have no prior experience with China, or TEFL.

sheeba · Joined: 17 Jun 2004 Posts: 1123

[quote]Also many people place value on the experience they get from coming to China, not to mention the chance to learn Chinese can be a valuable asset in the future. For all these reasons I think the salary is a pretty reasonable pay.

sheeba · Joined: 17 Jun 2004 Posts: 1123

[quote]Also many people place value on the experience they get from coming to China, not to mention the chance to learn Chinese can be a valuable asset in the future. For all these reasons I think the salary is a pretty reasonable pay. [quote]

Spot on Drizzt . My girlfriend and all those studying Chinese who are not native English speakers must be pretty envious of the opportunity we have . I am learning Chinese in China whilst being paid to teach . To me that's like winning the lottery- okay that's a bit over the top but I think it is a great opportunity .

I think Don mentioned hotel charges . My hotel has a pricelist at the rception desk . 500 yuan per night for my room . work that one out for the year ! I pay nothing.

cj750 · Joined: 27 Apr 2004 Posts: 3081 Location: Beijing

Roger...anyone with out a teaching cert could be termed an amateur "teacher"....to incl. those who profess to know the score.and..that have no topic other than itinerant amateur "teachers"....

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

I'll throw in a little more here if you don't mind . . .

I just took a 3-day holiday to Guangzhou with a one day excursion into Hong Kong. Between plane fare, hotel rooms, taxi fares, train fare (to HK), ferry fares, food, (very little) shopping . . . I easily spent 4000+ rmb. I'm not complaining, mind you. I had a good time. However, working on a 4000 or 5000 per month salary makes traveling in China (or out of China for that matter) more of a luxury than something you can do on a whim. If one came to China to explore it and were already self-suffiicent, then that's great. However, if you want to experience China the country (and not only your neighborhood), then that 4 grand may not go very far unless you are frugal.

If you don't mind making a 24 hour train trip as opposed to a 2 hour flight so you can "experience" China, then go for it. That's all . . . for now.

Volodiya · Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:24 am Post subject:

Sheeba, I don't disagree at all with your statements regarding extra value that people get out of the overseas experience while working in TEFL. My comments are for those who, like me, have chosen to do this long-term (now thirteen years abroad), and for thoese who, having chosen TEFL would, for any reason, like to earn more (retirement planning, home purchases, permanent health insurance, etc., all of which require lots of real earnings, over time).

Some would respond to a serious discussion of these issues with "Why don't you change careers, if TEFL wages are low?" In my case, I did, by beginning to teach English abroad. I'm satisfied with the choice and I've learned how to make it pay respectably, so a further change is unnecessary, at this point.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

When the Chinese side entered into negotiations on recruiting FTs over 25 years ago they did so less with a view of hiring professional career- teachers but as a concession to the other side.
The other side was American tertiary institutions of learning who were principally interested in eventually recruiting self-paying foreign students. For anglophone countries, the dissemination of knowledge has for a long time been a hard business matter.
The Chinese also were weary of the pernicious effects of direct exposure of their nationals to basically inimical ideology from the West, essentially America.
That's why they created jobs for FTs - not because they foresaw any need to hire native Englis-speaking teachers. There is no concrete and genuine dcemand for them unless they are able to do what the CHinese want their own teachers to do. They don't really know, nor care to know, how dysfunctional English instruction in China is; it is a pure academic subject and the exams matter only to Chinese; they prove zero English communciations capability on the part of Chinese but to the cert-crazed CHinese they prove everything.
FTs are therefore a window-dressing instrument, better paid than the local teachers, which the latter justifiably consider unfair. The majority of FTs employed in the mainland wouldn't be able to find a teaching job in Hong Kong or back home.
The Chinese don't want them to stay put, hence the need to sign a new contract every year, keeping FTs in their lower station.
FTs are widely regarded by the Chinese public as slackers on a holiday jaunt in China. They are occasionally welcome, often just suffered and not infrequently despised.
If you don't believe this get a subscription to the SCMP and read up on the long simmering row or cold war between local English teachers and NETs (and those NETs have to be far better qualified than most of us in the mainland are). There is jealousy and open contempt for FTs in some quarters.
I still consider teaching in China as an invigoratin type of work; it demands flexibility and a certain survival instinct. To me, China is still one of the many foreign countries I have lived in and enjoyed living in; it continues to excite me even though I cannot close my eyes to some of the more unwelcome realities here.
But many newbies are mentally unprepared to cope with the demands of life here, as I infer from the various critical assessments of living conditions in China. I think these young people are wasting a unique chance to see the world as it is rather than as it should be according to their preconceived ideas. You must be able to divorce from your own cultural background and inhabit the Here and Now, warts and all, without constantly referring back to your accustomed reference values from a different culture.
I think the Chinese treat many of us fairly well; I don't know if an American or Canadian language instructor can afford to go on holiday in different regions thousands of kilometers away from his or her base; here 4000 take you relatively far (and I know that 4000 is no longer enough to spend the entire 2 months of summer holidays, but hey, you can safe money towards that end - can you do that back home?). They also exempts us from tax up to 4000 (for Chinese the threshold can be as low as 1000).
We are in China's middle class - and that is a tiny fraction of China's total working population!

Volodiya · Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 5:45 am Post subject:

Roger, those are all interesting observations and I just need to make a small exception, based on my (supposed, by me) greater knowledge of the U.S.

Roger wrote:

Mideatoo · Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:43 pm Post subject:

shuize · Joined: 04 Sep 2004 Posts: 1270

Don McChesney · Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 656

Last year I was employed "full time' and doing 10 teaching hours a week, and no office time expected.
Can't complain. This year I have gone up to 12 hours a week, but got a payrise to cover it. Of course I get airfares, holiday bonuses etc etc as well.