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Minhang Oz · Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Posts: 610 Location: Shanghai,ex Guilin

So, Carol, how did the weekend's classes go? This thread has proven to be a popular one, and as Sunaru pointed out, there are as many brands of behaviour management as of instant noodles. It's the one that suits you that's best.

xiaoyu · Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 11:26 pm Post subject:

Carol-

i am hoping that your classes went well. you definitely had a lot of good advice. i used to be in a similar situation 60+ students in a class (senior middle school) and used many of the tactics that have been advised. but here is what i discovered for myself...

if you want a chinese student to listen and behave:
1) understand the culture (know your enemy)
2) understand more of the language than you let them think you understand (this gives you such an advantage and they never know when to talk about topics not related to class!)
3) implement scare tactics with shades of the catholic school nuns and gestapo (know everything about them and don't be afraid to go for the jugular! never back down on an ultimatum - if you don't intend to follow thru don't threaten it and don't complain about how they act afterwards!)
4) keep class moving quickly (esp in the first wks! don't give them a chance to stop and think of ways to cause problems.... those of you who have ever trained an animal -esp a horse- know this one!)
5) if you understand how to use elements of a society against one another from taking a psychology course do so!

some of these can sound harsh.... but they will work! as others have pointed out. i did all of these with my students and ended up having a great time. i didn't have them completely disrespecting me or ignoring me during a class (like many of the chinese teachers) but instead got an involved student body. i have found that many students there work well under the "reverse psychology" bit or the competitive structure natural to an alcoholic family..... those with some psychology background might understand what i am saying here..... if not you can check it out in some books or PM me..... but above and beyond these methods threaten the loss of face and we all know that if you want somethign to happen.... and you don't care how you accomplish it you better served to threaten that loss...... i loved my students in this situation and still keep in touch with a lot of them! many of them have thanked me for making them learn and making them interested. these same ones are considered the most obnoxious by the chinese teachers.....

good luck though! and great posting with lots of good advice!

xiaoyu

woza17 · Joined: 25 May 2003 Posts: 602 Location: china

On Saturday with the class from hell. I took the advice given, spotted the worst and disrespectful, they had been warned. I queitly asked them in English to stand up and then in Chinese. I said you can go home now, they were reluctant, I insisted , they left I turned to the rest of the class and said anymore disruptive behaviour I will write a letter to your mummies and daddies and they won't be happy. Noise level dropped not as low as I liked but better. I agree with Sunaru and that you do have to follow through on your threats.
cheers everyone

ESL Guru · Joined: 18 May 2003 Posts: 462

Carol -

CONGRATULATIONS!

You almost make me wish I was a student again, your student!

xiaoyu · Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 11:45 pm Post subject:

Congrats! and i can guarantee that if you keep it up next weekend that it will go even better! Smile

didn't it feel great?! Smile

xiaoyu

sillyboy · Joined: 14 Jun 2003 Posts: 12

face is a very useful "weapon",concerning students and Chinese teachers. the local teacher will be very embarrassed if you complain/moan/bitch about their class. So, have a word with them, and they should have the discipline sorted out before you do any "teaching".

sillyboy · Joined: 14 Jun 2003 Posts: 12

you call having a quiet word "running to the teacher"? If the Chinese teacher is halfway decent, you won't need to. if i adopted your discipline "techniques", i would be kicked out of town the next day. the students know that if they don't behave, the teacher will send a letter home to their parents the next day, and this saves a lot of time in the classroom, so i can do guess what? .... teach.

ESL Guru · Joined: 18 May 2003 Posts: 462

Sillyboy -

Attacking Sunaru is, well, just silly, boy!

Minhang Oz · Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Posts: 610 Location: Shanghai,ex Guilin

Some people have taught for thirty years, some for one year thirty times. I'm hopefully more in the former group than the latter, and know enough to realise that just as there are more than one teaching and learning style, there are different ways to effect classroom control.

Where there is a class teacher in place whose brief is the overall pastoral care of the group, and there are significant behaviour problems, a subject teacher would be flying in the face of the system by not passing these concerns on. These are often across the board problems - the student may be disruptive in several classes, but everyone is too embarrassed to say so. I've effectively used this system here with a chronic truanter. Not only did said student return to class pronto, but the other students and teachers knew. So this wasn't just another couldn't care, grab the money, disappear after a year foreigner: unfortunately, this is the stereotype. Searching out an unknown teacher in a large office building, and successfully communicating the issue in bad Chinese won a fair bit of respect.

On the other hand, while I might alert someone else to the problem, I would keep ownership. Like Brian, showing that you are in charge and in control is the major part of the battle. You can do an M.Ed on classroom management, there are thousands of text books, and many very experienced teachers willing to help - just witness this thread.

klasies · Joined: 04 Mar 2003 Posts: 178 Location: China

I refuse to teach if there are Chinese English teachers in my class. If they try to come into my class I politely ask them to leave. If they say they want to attend my class as a listener I allow it, but if they open there mouth ONCE to translate anything I say they are gone, never ever to return. If the school insists that I must have a Chinese English teacher, I tell them it is me alone or no me!!!!!!!

Andre

Minhang Oz · Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Posts: 610 Location: Shanghai,ex Guilin

This isn't what I mean by "class teacher" Klasies: it's a teacher appointed to take overall responsibility for a class. They meet the students every morning, but often the class teacher doesn't even teach them. A common system in Western highschools.
God forbid I had another teacher interfering in my classroom!

ESL Guru · Joined: 18 May 2003 Posts: 462

Whatever disciplin method you use, just remember to apply it to your FAO as he/she is just a little kid in a grown up suit!

klasies · Joined: 04 Mar 2003 Posts: 178 Location: China

Minhang Oz

Sorry mate, if my poster inferred that I was refering to your post. Alas that was not my intention. I was just commenting on the thread as a whole!

Once again please accept my apology.

Cheers

Andre

Minhang Oz · Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Posts: 610 Location: Shanghai,ex Guilin

No apology needed Andre; I just thought you'd misunderstood me.

ps moderators, please note how damn POLITE we are!

sillyboy · Joined: 14 Jun 2003 Posts: 12

thank you minhang oz. sound advice. can i clear up a few issues?
i use a "quiet word" as a very last resort. if i have to give a student a bollocking, i do it. no problem there. an occaisonal student may require a different approach, like the chronic truanters that minhang oz mentioned.

minhang also mentioned "ownership". too true. the chinese teachers in my classes simply sit at the back, and use the class to do their marking. i am the teacher,and i am in charge.

sunaru mentioned something about it is not just what/how we teach, but our general behaviour/ attitude in the classroom. i agree. wise words.

spineless... moi? well, maybe a bit wobbly.