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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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 Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:33 am Post subject: |
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| kev7161 wrote: |
| Lack of courteous professionalism is just plain . . . wrong. |
By the same token, JinF's actions are far from being professional. Personally, I would have given a few choice words that were well thought of in advance to the FAO and/or dean before heading off to class. I would not have made things a lot more complicated and made a mountain out of a molehill.
| bdawg wrote: |
On another note, arguments such as this do very little to improve FT's images in China, nor the image of your nationality.
Yeah, it sucks that you weren't informed, but making huge scenes isn't going to assist your cause nor improve relations with your employer.
What exactly would you call a pushover FT? Kind of subjective isn't it?
I mean, the manner in which Jeff acted, I would not consider very professional. If his school consistently changed his schedule in the manner he described, and he did nothing about it, then yes, he would be a pushover. Yet, it would appear to be an isolated incident.
I seriously believe many FT's in China create this problems for themselves...creating a mountain out of a molehill, and then convienently blame it on the concept that they didn't want to be 'pushed around' by their school. |
I strongly support those statements. Also, there is a big difference between being a "pushover" (or maybe a coward) and knowing which fight to pick, and which fight to pass. If one is bothered by trivial matters such as last-minute notice of schedule changes or class cancellations, how is one going to handle more important issues like month-late payment of salary? As the old saying going, DON'T SWEAT THE PETTY STUFF.
Last edited by tw on Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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bdawg
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 526
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:24 am Post subject: |
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Thanks TW 
| Quote: |
| I don't see many hands, do I? Oh a few have a simple remedy; just do whatever you're told and smile through it all |
Well, as I previously wrote....
Yeah, it sucks that you weren't informed, but making huge scenes isn't going to assist your cause nor improve relations with your employer. You just got to bite the bullet deal with it just time, while informing your employer that you wish to be informed of such things in the future. You can use this as leverage should they try to pull something like this again.
Starting World War Three doesn't do anything to improve your situation. You may think that acting in such a manner suggests that you are not a 'push-over' but it does little to remedy the situation, and while you may eventually come to an understanding, your future relations with the employer will be forever stained. Personally, I think much, much higher of an individual who approaches a situation with a cool head, and I know employers do too. There are times to play hard ball, and this, isn't really one of them.
To clarify my solution. Tough...take the classes like a man. Politely ask to be informed of such schedule changes several days in advance, or whatever you feel is necessary. Get in writing. This gives you ammo should your employer come up short in the future. Once this is done, the ball is in their court. If they fail to perform on your simple, simple request, you are then in a position you can say "Ha, you promised to inform me of such changes, yet you didn't". You have leverage. |
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bdawg
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 526
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:31 am Post subject: |
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I once knew and FT who was a class A rage case. He basically crashed his way through China taking out everyone and everything is his path. If something didn't go the way he envisioned it, he would tear into his employers, yelling, screaming...sometimes breaking things.
Using this method, he recieved everything he asked for, except respect. |
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KarenB
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 227
Location: Hainan
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:56 am Post subject: |
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Well, Jeff, I can see where you're coming from in being annoyed about not being notified in advance about the weekend classes (I gather that this is the issue -- not the actual teaching).
I'm beginning my 6th year in China, and this last minute stuff still annoys me. Sure, it's China, but if China is going to open up and do business with the rest of the world, they might want to try a little advanced planning. I've had the assistant principal call me at 11 p.m. to tell me that I would start teaching a new class in the morning (7:45 a.m.). That leaves me zero time for prep.
This year, the school FAO never even bothered to tell us that we were supposed to teach make-up classes at all. I called him to ask about it (figured we would, but didn't know which classes we were supposed to make up) but he never answered or returned my call. So I had to check with the students.
I think, however, Jeff, that you could have made your point a little more diplomatically. Perhaps you could have said that in the future you will need 24 hours (or whatever) advance notice of any changes in schedule, and if you don't receive it, you won't teach. (In fact, has anyone thought about writing something like this into their contracts?) In the case of National Day or May Day holidays, during which many FTs like to travel, it isn't unreasonable to let the teachers know 2 weeks or even a month in advance, so travel plans can be adjusted accordingly.
I have my own particular beef about this particular holiday, and maybe some of the rest of you are experiencing the same thing. We "make up" two of the 5 missed days, which means 2 classes are then one week ahead of the other 3 (assuming that you teach a different class every day of the week, as I do). I teach writing to grade 2 college students, and I have a different class each day of the week, but like to keep them all on the same lesson plan. This year the school decided to make up Thursday and Friday classes, which was pretty asinine, since we missed Monday and Tuesday classes the week before the holiday due to Typhoon Damrey.
So now, Monday and Tuesday classes are two weeks behind Thursday and Friday! I don't know why the school didn't make up Monday and Tuesday, and then everyone would be where they were before the typhoon and the holiday. |
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| bdawg wrote: |
| Starting World War Three doesn't do anything to improve your situation. You may think that acting in such a manner suggests that you are not a 'push-over' but it does little to remedy the situation, and while you may eventually come to an understanding, your future relations with the employer will be forever stained. Personally, I think much, much higher of an individual who approaches a situation with a cool head, and I know employers do too. There are times to play hard ball, and this, isn't really one of them. |
Again, my feeling exactly. But sadly, that's not exactly how many FT's see it here. Correct me if I am wrong, but I get the feeling that many people have this I-am-a-Westerner-so-you-have-to-do-thing-for-me-the-Western-way attitude. To these FT's, this may seem justified and rightful. But to the Chinese, these FT's come across as being bullies, ill-mannered with poor upbringing, and uncivilized. These FT's remind them of the same foreigners who colonized parts of China during the Qing Dynasty. These FT's unknowingly and unwillingly create a negative stereotype of all FT's. Alas, no matter how hard we may try to reason with these FT's, they will probably never see it our way and there will always be two sides on this issue just like there are on other issues like acceptable salary, etc. To these FT's, we have no principle, no gut, no integrity, and maybe even a disagrce.
I learned a long time ago that you save your worst as a last resort. Until things are to a point that they are absolutely intolerable, you hold it. I mean, how many people could have tolerated having no water for 36 straight hours? |
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YearOfTheDog
Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 159
Location: Peterborough, ON, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I learned a long time ago that you save your worst as a last resort. Until things are to a point that they are absolutely intolerable, you hold it. I mean, how many people could have tolerated having no water for 36 straight hours? |
I live in Inner Mongolia too, in a village on the eastern side. And let me tell you, getting classes at the last minute is a small issue here. No water for days and no power during sun-in-the-sky hours for weeks push you to the limit..Thank Gawd I have solar hotwater.lol[/quote] |
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kev7161
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:34 am Post subject: |
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Oh no - - a lot of assumptions are being made about Jeff and others (like me) who really get pissy about this particular topic (the lack of notifying when it comes to schedule changes).
I certainly can't speak for Jeff as I don't know the lad, but I can speak for me. I have (almost) ALWAYS requested things in writing/emails (and cc-ed my emails to me so I could save them) and/or asked politely making REASONABLE requests. No, I have never asked for these things to be put in my contract and, really, would they even do that?
The only time I get irate is when I DO ask for these things, get assurances, and then they drop the ball. What would happen if I informed my students that, next week, I was going to readjust my schedule due to such-and-such conflict . . . AND NOT TELL MY SUPERIORS?? How do you think that would fly? Of course, it's ludicrous to even contemplate something like that and they are my bosses, after all. But just step into fantasy land for a moment, won't you? It's not much different than (legitimately) calling in sick the morning of your classes . . . and most schools still expect you to make up those classes as well!
I remember one time our water suddenly disappeared about 8am. I had a 10am class and I had yet to shower and shave and . . . other things. When the water hadn't come on by 9:30, I called and said I couldn't come in to teach because I stank and my hair was greasy (I have an oily hair problem - - I HAVE to wash it daily, or else!) and I was unshaven. Generally, pretty disheveled. I was told it didn't matter, I had to come in anyway, so I did. Amazingly, nobody batted an eye at my unkempt appearance, but I felt so grungy and crappy all day long.
The point is, for all the money and other nice things thrown our way, it seems that there is really very little consideration for the FTs in most schools. My current one doesn't suck though, so that's nice (so far, anyway). |
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| kev7161 wrote: |
| The only time I get irate is when I DO ask for these things, get assurances, and then they drop the ball. |
Then yes, I would be irritated too.
Here's what got me almost laughing 2 weeks ago. Four days before the National Day holiday began, I went to the Director of Foreign Language Department to confirm the number of days we'd be off as I heard a rumour that there would be 9 days.  The guy told me that the Education Ministry was coming in to do an inspection so there would be NO holiday or at most 1 or 2 days. I felt that it was my duty to inform my students so they wouldn't have to try to get a refund for their train ticket and yes, you could imagine their shock and sadness when I told them the "news". Well, that was on a Tuesday and on Wednesday, after having told 3 classes the bad news, I was told by a student that there would be 7 days of holiday and she pointed this notice on the wall to me. The notice was dated MONDAY. 
Apparently, what the director failed to tell me was that the Chinese teachers wouldn't be having a full week of holiday.  I don't know if either he was unaware that I was one of the college's only two FT's, or just being clueless. Ah well, such is China. |
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jeffinflorida
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 2024
Location: "I'm too proud to beg and too lazy to work" Uncle Fester, The Addams Family season two
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
These FT's unknowingly and unwillingly create a negative stereotype of all FT's. |
The image of the FT? What exactly is this image and negative stereotype? Most Chinese think we make way too much money and spend too much money.
One day on a long distance bus with my pretty little Chinese girlfriend I took a look at the school textbook she was studying from (she is a 2nd year English student at a university).
The passage she had to read has this question that she had to answer: �If foreigners make so much money how come they never have enough?�
That is the image of the FT held by the Chinese.
To the Chinese FTs are no different then the Pandas in the Chengdu zoo. |
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yamahuh
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 1033
Location: Karaoke Hell
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| jeffinflorida wrote: |
NO! the principle, the principle Thanks Yamahuh you got it. |
I really do get it. I'm huge on the principle of things and it's one of the things that irks me most when people ask me (directly or by their actions) to compromise them.
That being said, and this being China; and the fact that there's seemingly no way around this retarded "This is how it's done in China" failure to plan or notify FT's of scheduling changes, perhaps a compromise is the only option.
Maybe agreeing to make up the classes that they wanted you to teach at a mutually acceptable time in the future will assuage them. If it does, and that's a pretty easy fix; perhaps you can tell them that in the future you require a set amount of time in advance to be notified of changes otherwise you will exercise your prerogative to not accomodate them.
Of course we have had this conversation numerous times and although the situation is better than it was it's still far from perfect.
Tiny steps...
Again, good luck! |
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yamahuh
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 1033
Location: Karaoke Hell
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| jeffinflorida wrote: |
| [The passage she had to read has this question that she had to answer: �If foreigners make so much money how come they never have enough?� |
Again, this is undoubtedly a Chinese stereotype formed by the fact that we want to receive what we have been promised.
'Yes, I make 5 times a regular high schol teachers wage and am provided with free accomodations, but that doesn't mean you get to screw me out of my plane fare or my travel bonus'
From a Chinese viewpoint this could be indicative of always wanting more / never having enough money.
Another matter of principle.
A lot of people are criticizing JinF for his actions. I'm not sure that his actions were the most constructive; certainly not the most diplomatic but sometimes this type of thing can be the 'straw that broke the camel's back'.
But, let's look at it from a different perspective; everyone knows that the intrinsic value of a Chinese contract is essentially squat, so why do we get so mad when we aren't paid or when something we have been promised fails to materialize? - After all it's the Chinese way of doing things.
Why should we get so upset in some instances but be chastised for getting upset in others?
I fully agree that you should pick your battles carefully but it's annoying, frustrating and bordering on completely unprofessional to be notified at the last minute ALL THE TIME!!
I just wonder that the Chinese themselves don't find it more annoying than they appear to do. |
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| KarenB wrote: |
We "make up" two of the 5 missed days, which means 2 classes are then one week ahead of the other 3 (assuming that you teach a different class every day of the week, as I do). I teach writing to grade 2 college students, and I have a different class each day of the week, but like to keep them all on the same lesson plan. This year the school decided to make up Thursday and Friday classes, which was pretty asinine, since we missed Monday and Tuesday classes the week before the holiday due to Typhoon Damrey.
So now, Monday and Tuesday classes are two weeks behind Thursday and Friday! I don't know why the school didn't make up Monday and Tuesday, and then everyone would be where they were before the typhoon and the holiday. |
I had that in Dalian last year too. When I noted to the assistant dean that by examination time some classes of post-graduates would had 2 fewer days than other students, I was promptly told that it was OK as my work schedule was based on the number of academic weeks. So in the end, some classes had 2 fewer days of lessons than other classes did. |
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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[EDITED]
| jeffinflorida wrote: |
| Most Chinese think we make way too much money and spend too much money. |
As compared to what most Chinese people make, yes we make a lot of money.
| Quote: |
If foreigners make so much money how come they never have enough?
Most Chinese think we make way too much money and spend too much money. |
I strongly doubt the first statement can be interpreted by the second statement.
Last edited by tw on Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Starry Night
Joined: 24 Sep 2005
Posts: 62
Location: Hubei (Central China), a long way from the ocean
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="tw"]
| jeffinflorida wrote: |
| Most Chinese think we make way too much money and spend too much money. |
As compared to what most Chinese people make, yes we make a lot of money. As to the comment about us spending too much money. Well golly gee, I wonder how and where they got those ideas from. Perhaps from seeing the alcoholic womanizing free-spending FT's suffering from mid-life crisis?
| Quote: |
| One day on a long distance bus with my pretty little Chinese girlfriend I took a look at the school textbook she was studying from (she is a 2nd year English student at a university). |
A 42 year-old dating a 20/21 year old (a student nonetheless). Hmmm...[/quote]
Boys and their toys...  |
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bdawg
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 526
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Most Chinese think we make way too much money and spend too much money. |
This is definetly a true fact, 100%...but I don't really like the context in which it is used. It took me awhile to come to grips...or to justify our outragous salary relative to our chinese counterparts.
This is how I view it:
The hard truth is that we, as foreigners, cannot compare our salaries to our chinese co-workers. We can only compare to our fellow foreigners.
Case point. Minimum 1 hour private/part-time instruction in Nanjing is 100RMB. This is market rate. This is how it is. I personally believe this is too much, given the relative simplicity of the required work. Yet I would never, ever ask for less, because this is the market rate. This is what other foreigners are making. It's a dual monetary system.
Everyone has their ethics...but this is the harsh reality for Chinese and foreigners in Big Red.
We, as foreigners recieve this pay because we are, in a manner of words...rare...and rarities are worth more.
Gold and steel. Gold doesn't provide structural support nor does it really hold things together . This steel is the backbone of the building (institution). But gold sure looks nice, and there is not much of it...so wether you like it or not...it is by default worth more.
Supply and Demand dudes..... |
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