Job Discussion Forums

jinxy22 · Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2003 2:30 pm Post subject:

i think guru has a crush on me ... how sweet. is it my dancing feet in my avatar guru?

ESL Guru · Joined: 18 May 2003 Posts: 462

Actually I saw the avatar several years ago. Liked it then and like it now.

The truth is that I told you the truth but neither you nor anybody else wanted to hear it. It was not personal. As I reflected upon the matter I realized that there are so many ESL "teachers" in China already who are just acting the part that I had to admit that your joining the party would be like a spit in the ocean.

I also realized that the damage being done to China under the current educational system can suffer a little more.

But what the hey, come on over and I will buy the first round! Except that I leave for the states on June 28 so better hurry!

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

I think our great Guru is melancholy as the day of his departure for his homeland is fast approaching! Forgive him his grumpiness! I have come to appreciate his every word even if I disagree with him (very seldom, but in this thread I do!).

Enigma,
you asked about the LEGALITY of working in China undocumented. There is a simple answer: So long as your school SPONSORS you, i.e. obtains for you the work visa, you ARE legal.
This is not contingent upon you having certificates or experience. In many instances, they do officially require you to have them, but they are often conveniently ignored. Unfortunately, this also spells friction for those with a professional conscience who might object to how they are expected to work. Most of us end up doing lessons of an utterly questionable type, and of proven uselessness. The better your professional understanding of educational questions is, the more you must disagree with how they use expats here, and how they teach English in the first place! The less initated face the fewer problems because they have the lowest expectations.
Again, if you teach in a kindergarten (provided you feel up to this task!) you are likely to suffer the lowest number of disappointments! The preschoolers are the most mentally alert and the least biased. Your satisfaction is more likely to be guaranteed!
Just how you teach at a kindergarten is a matter you should discuss on the Elementary Education forum; meanwhile I want to drive home the message that in some provinces kindergartens do NOT have the right to hire NETs. However, parents are pushing these kindergartens so hard to introduce English to their kids that many of them disregard official guidelines.
Personally, I think a TEFL cert is not the ideal background for this level; drama is much more appropriate! ( know this, and I often regret having quals for college teaching and having to continually learn new ropes!

ESL Guru · Joined: 18 May 2003 Posts: 462

Roger -
I am neither grumpy nor melancholy.

I do agree with you that a TEFL cert is not nearly as good as a drama background to properly prepare one to come to China to play the part of an ESL teacher.

enigma · Joined: 22 May 2003 Posts: 68

jinxy22 · Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 9:12 am Post subject:

"also realized that the damage being done to China under the current educational system can suffer a little more. " ( meaning my own departure to china)

" do agree with you that a TEFL cert is not nearly as good as a drama background to properly prepare one to come to China to play the part of an ESL teacher."
--fantasic quotes from my own personal god of the esl life ....

speaking of drama dear guru ... with your constant attack against me you have proven to be the most dramatic person i have met on here .... step up center stage and take your well earned and well deserved applause.

all joking ( or not for a certain mr. grumpy wumpy pants as he will not let sleeping dogs lie ) aside .. i really am confident that i will do well with young kids ... i think that's my general direction.. i have had some awesome private posts sent my way as well as some great posts here to begin leading me in the right direction ... i have been teaching disabled kids indepence skills for a long time now ... drama i have always found to be the most effective way to get the quiet kids to open up and branch out to previously uncomfortable situations ..

again i thank the constructive criticism and advice ... i am not above being told to go back to school .. i probably should .. i am not irresponsible .. i just need a change in my life ... i am not going back to school next year .. i can't... if it offends people that i am not going that's great .. i wish i had a life chart of you older guys to see that none of you made any spontanious decisions to branch out and see life outside of the box dealt to you .. i'm sure we all make crazy decisions and live with them ... to those of you who feel i am making a mistake .. i am willing to make the mistake .. i have had things too easy in my life and have had a year that has allowed me to wake up a little and see things differently .. i am fully willing to make mistakes .. if it means i get escorted out of korea ( or after hanging at guru's place in china for too long he finally kicks me out ) i am willing to face the consequences.

i have a lot to offer .. and i may be too naive to see what is in front of me, but i willingly embrace the challenges i will face this next year or two ...

my two cents worth ...

j

jinxy22 · Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 9:19 am Post subject:

ps ... roger ..
have no ill feeling towards our great bud and grand master of esl ..
i am a big boy .. i can wrestle with the best of them.
i harbour no ill feelings towards my new angry friend... he's opened my eyes a little to the hostility random strangers are willing to throw my way ..
monsieur guru may have pushed me to become the best damn esl teacher asia has ever seen .. for this i thank his anger and bitterness.

gerard · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 581 Location: Internet Cafe

Enigma you just want to travel and that is OK I guess. But I and others thinkit's ridiculous you don;t have at least a degree. Is a degree too much to ask??? Jaysus these days its like high school (dont pull the cult of the comma here) Show some respect for the people here and get a degree. Yes you may be a fine teacher but who cares??? Go to Korea where it is all a farce anyway...

jinxy22 · Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 9:54 am Post subject:

this magic piece of paper ...
wow.
gerard ... completely understand what you have to say .. however, not everyone has the cookie cutter happy life where the degree is something possible.

i have worked hard, studied hard and i need to get away for a while .. this year has been remarkably tough on me .... i hardly see it as high school .. i'm 24 .. surely not the oldest kid on the block, but i have some life experiences i bet would knock some of you guys on ur butts ...
it really is remarkable that i need a piece of paper to demonstrate self-worth ....

ESL Guru · Joined: 18 May 2003 Posts: 462

It is time to set the record straight:

I like you.
I even admire your tenacity and determination.

Now comes the hard part:

Which pedogogy will you apply and why?
What teaching methodology will you utilize and why?
What teaching materials will YOU provide?

What, you thought your employer would take care of all of this for you?

Sorry. Not likely. Better know what you are doing rather than play the part of the TIN Man or Lion Heart or Straw Man.

There are no yellow brick roads in China or Korea. And if you still decide to come, leave that damn Toto behind at least!

And while we are at it, you are the only one name calling.

jinxy22 · Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 10:22 am Post subject:

hmm ...
perhaps i have had the claws out ..
monsieur guru ...
i do nothing without working hard for it .. .
a trip with a casual class to teach is not what i'm expecting nor what i'm looking for ..
regardless of whether i have a degree or not should not dictate the level of responsibility i would have with taking on this new challenge ..
a piece of paper in a year or two will not change the person i am .. so i have that magic "slice of life" held in my hands .. does it change anything?
i have confessed that i do not know exactly what to expect overseas. the first day i walked into the group home where i work with disabled kids i had no idea what to expect, no resources to offer, tons of fear and lots of enthusiasm. i seem to have succeeded quite well .. i learned within the first month that i needed to prepare a bit more, bring in resources, and ask questions of people around me ...
i am fairly confident that not one person has gone to join the esl world completely prepared for everything thrown their way. so i may not have all the resources within the first day or so ( keep in mind that i have taken a tefl course here ... ) .. i will find them, so i may not know how to deal with certain kids, i will post here or ask elsewhere for help and advice ..
guru .. remember the first day you stepped into a classroom ... i'm quite sure it wasn't the easiest day of your life .. i appreciate your harsh words... and i do respect your opinion ( did i just type that????) .. i will fully allow many ' i told you so's" if i manage somehow to fail ......

ESL Guru · Joined: 18 May 2003 Posts: 462

I have at no time suggested that you will fail!

But you did not answer my questions.

I gave them to you in advance as a favor because you will have to deal with them once in country. Then it is too late.

Good luck!

enigma · Joined: 22 May 2003 Posts: 68

ESL Guru · Joined: 18 May 2003 Posts: 462

Now you have opened a new can of worms.

You say you are injurred.

China has laws that may bar you from legal entry depending upon the nature of your injury.
Better check this out very carefully.

jinxy22 · Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 4:54 pm Post subject:

enigma ..

sorry to hear about your injury! ... being a dancing and singing, drama guy, i know how important it is to have everything in working order ( i also played the violin for 10 years) ... i dislocated my leg doing west side story .. i had to jump off a car, land on someone and roll with him ... i landed alright .. in the splits ... needless to say words cannot describe the pain a male feels when jumping off a car, landing in the splits and popping a leg out of joint!! ... figured then and there any chances of habving children later in life were ruined ...
have healed up fine now, still have pain every now and then though.. especially after a long dance class ...
are you going to a physiotherapist for your injury?