Job Discussion Forums

[denise]

Wait, I'm confused now... Are we talking about teachers teaching in the L1/explaining things in the L1? I don't have the luxury of doing that just yet (even if I wanted to), because I'm still trying to master the most basic phrases in Japanese. I'm refering to the students' use of the L1--when they're working on a problem in groups and I'm not there to help them (sorry, can't be everywhere at once--there are always other groups/students needing help also) and they use Japanese, or Czech, or Mandarin, or whatever, to work it out. In such cases, I let it go. If they are just chatting, not working on the task, then I will ask them to switch to English, which invariably gets them back on task.

[Capergirl]

I am a firm believer in language immersion. I studied French as a Second Language and took 4 full months of French immersion after I completed my BA--no English was to be spoken at all unless speaking on the phone with anglophone family members. I learned more French in those 4 months than I had in the combined 13 years I'd studied French in elementary, junior high, and high school.

I do agree somewhat with those who say that at a beginner level, the L1 can be a useful tool. However, sometimes direct translation becomes a crutch so an instructor needs to be careful not to rely too heavily on this method in the classroom. At an intermediate or advanced level, I don't see any real benefit to using the L1 in the classroom. I have an "English only" policy in my classes (adult intermediate learners) and the students abide by it. I don't even allow electronic translators (Gawd, I hate those things) in the classroom and dictionaries are used minimally. (We actually have the Oxford Wordpower dictionary for the students and I find it is more useful than an English-L1 dictionary.) Garnering meaning from context, using real-life examples, taking roots of words that students already know, etc. are all more helpful to students than simply looking something up or typing it into their translators (possibly getting the wrong definition in the process).

Those are my thoughts, anyway.

[Marcoregano]

I teach adult intermediates in HK. Of course, I do encourage them to discuss/communicate in English, but they ALWAYS start speaking Cantonese after a couple of minutes. It is quite simply impossible to stop this occurring and would be quite pointless (and rude) to try to stop them. With a monolingual class that is bound to happen....all you can do is keep reminding them that they should use English. They all agree...then start speaking Cantonese again. The best language classrooms are those where the students are from different countries/languages.....so they have no choice but to communicate in English.

[guest of Japan]

It is better to be a little rude than to be irresponsible. I presume they are paying you to learn English. They will hold you accountable for the development of their skills. Have confidence in your skills and insist that they are in an English language only environment. If you have to, display the flag of your native country. Everytime they start using their native language point to the flag and say I'm sorry this is X country. You have to speak English here. They will adapt and they will love you for it in the long term.

[Marcoregano]

I repeat: I encourage them to speak English as far as I consider reasonable....but you can only go so far. Obviously, different teachers will have different opinions and different thresholds on how far they should go. Waving flags? My personal line is this....I am a teacher, not a clown. Some teachers like to put on a dog and pony show, some don't. Some students like a dog and pony show. Some don't. Some adults like to be treated like kids. Some don't. etc etc.

[Mike_2003]

[guest of Japan]

I'm sorry if my post sounded judgemental. Actually my thinking on this has very little to do with my personal opinion. Before my present job, I was working at a language school in Japan. Sometimes my students would take classes at different schools because they were on business trips or vacations. When I would ask them what the other classes were like I always heard the same same response, "The teacher wasn't very good. He/she allowed the students to speak Japanese in class."

And I didn't say wave a flag. I said point to one if you have to.

Author's note, This suggestion should not be used in countries where you could be murdered for it.

[Roger]

The question as to how much we should use L1 in an L2 environment: As expats, for us the answer simply is: 100%, and that's the reason why we get hired.
Our employers fool themselves thinking it is the face that makes their own students adopt our language. The problem stems from an irrational mindset that treats an L2 as 'foreign', a foreign body that habitually gets rejected by the L2 learner because the L2 learner's mind is wired to his L1 because even the L1 learners' own teacher treats the L2 this way: translating, translating, translating, explaining things in their mother tongue.
Even simple instructions such as "stand up!" or "sit down!" seldom occur in the target language. Grammar is "explained" using totally inadequate mother tongue terminology that has no relevance in their own language (such as tenses in Chinese!). Thus, students are totally unprepared for the encounter with a native speaker.
Add to this two elements that I could take for granted in studying other languages but my CHinese students are deprived of them:
- they are not supposed to use monolingual dictionaries during tests or exams. When we had French or German exams, we were allowed to use a Petit Robert or a Duden to find any word we could not come up of our own; we still had to be versed in how to use the word properly, which was rewgarded as the more challenging job than merely coming up with a suitable vocable!
- And, they do not study literature in an L2.

[Marcoregano]

G of J....Japanese students do what they're told? These are adults or kids?

[guest of Japan]

My students at the language school did as I instructed them to do. They knew they payed to go to an English only environment, so they generally responded favorably to my proddings. Those were mainly adults with some high school students.

My current job is with low level high school students. The majority of them do not want to learn English. They do not do as they are told.

The differences are night and day.

[dmb]

Dear Mike_2003 I have to strongly disagree with you. Turkish is full of idioms and slang.

[Mike_2003]

Hi dmb,

I'm not sure I can agree with you there. Whenever I overhear Turks speaking (i.e. when I'm sure they are not dumbing it down for my benefit) I can still understand 95%, and my Turkish isn't wonderful.

The do use some slang and idiomatic empression, but not as much as in English by a long shot. At least we don't have thousands of confusing phrasal verbs to learn, either...

Mike

[PanamaTeacher]

Marco

If your students are not following your instructions you are doing something wrong. What would you do if you were a doctor and your patients were not following your instructions, would you let them die in order not to appear rude? You may need to take a course in assertiveness. Now I'm sure you'll come back with some great excuse. Save it. Earn your salary and teach English not Chinese.

Remember your students learned L1 as children because that is all they heard. So teach L2 in the same way, if it is English your class should be 100% English, and you need to do whatever it takes to ensure that. Don't worry about your image, focus on the results.

[Marcoregano]

Panama Teacher, you seem to have a very rigid concept of teaching. Perhaps you have taught Cantonese working adults? I suspect not. My point is essentially that there are few, if any, hard and fast rules that can always be universally applied in our trade...teachers are different, students are different etc etc and you must adapt your teaching accordingly.

My students are adults, not kids, and there comes a point when you have to back off. With some cultures/students that point may come sooner than with others. Many of my students are surprisingly unmotivated. There is a lot of pressure in HK from government and employers for employees to improve their English. Unfortunately, this doesn't provide great motivation and no matter how assertive you want to be you can't bring a horse to water. Plus, as anyone who teaches in Asia well knows, the students generally are much more reluctant to discuss/converse in English than, say, European students. I have no doubt that some teachers are more assertive than me, some doubtless less so....c'est la vie. But a classroom Hitler I am not.

BTW, I dunno where you got the idea that I speak Chinese in my classes....I speak 100% English. And if I felt sick, PT, I certainly wouldn't come to your classroom. I'd go see a doctor.

[PanamaTeacher]

I suspected you would be a tough guy defending your inability to control your class. Did you walk all over your teachers in college or HS. But I see that the problem is that I don't understand Asia, especially HK. Maybe I don't but I sure understand when a person says he is helpless to control his students. You said:



I teach adult intermediates in HK. Of course, I do encourage them to discuss/communicate in English, but they ALWAYS start speaking Cantonese after a couple of minutes. It is quite simply impossible to stop this occurring and would be quite pointless (and rude) to try to stop them. With a monolingual class that is bound to happen....all you can do is keep reminding them that they should use English. They all agree...then start speaking Cantonese again.

Now you are saying two absurd things (in my opinion) 1. That adults are harder to control than children. 2. That the adults are not motivated, and they don't like to speak English in Asia.

If you can't control or motivate your students what do you do during class?
BTW how many people are in each class?