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vikdk



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676

PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheers mate - yuv made me day - and not a bit of bad parlance in sight Very Happy
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Babala



Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1303
Location: Henan

PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I won't accuse you of being greedy or lazy, maybe just of having too much time on your hands that you feel the need to brag about your salary (by the way, we could give a rat's...) on every single thread. Cool
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vikdk



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676

PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

babala yur 40 hours an you can still find time to write here - yur quite a girl - actualy some ppl might give a rats about it - ppl who are thinking of making a serious go in China - you know real qualified teachers - if braging is giving these ppl real info about the posibilities here then a braging ill go Laughing
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vikdk



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676

PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

as a foot note to my last post
Dear Larry, sorry about the mess we made in your thread - just reckon we gave you way too much info - but then again I reckon the only way of finding out what you can do here is by taking a plunge and testing the waters - lots do, but jump out screaming complaining of icy tempretures, but a few keep on bobbing along - thing is though, what you interested in the doggy paddle or the butterfly - and then again one mans doggy paddle is anothers butterfly - waaaaaaaaaaaaah and then we get to a discusion on heresay!!!
Sorry mate reckon your question was just to darn hard for this class - but best of luck - and tell yur misses that maybe she can find a regular job - marketing herself (as so helpfully suggested by Rog) aint neccesary here, and really against the law
all the best
vik
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Roger



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138

PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="millie"][quote="Roger"] US$550 per month is a decent wage Question

Fair suck of the sauce bottle! You might believe it but few other westerners do.

Any FT that works in China knows that this is survival and very little more.
Let�s not pretend otherwise.
And that�s OK to to work for this amount if it suits your situation but �decent? � that�s a terrible misuse of the word!


Oh, I see a relatively decent wage...
like compared to Chinese farmers and factory workers and people who live under bridges Confused
Oh, yeh � that sort of decent wage.
I
Quote:
cushy position, approximately middle class


The appalling pay for educators elsewhere in the world very quickly once you leave China.

Quote:


This self-appointed "educator" is pontificating from the comfort of a hovel he can afford in Hong Kong - if, and I repeat: IF we are to believe that that is where he is currently living.
How on Earth can one be so knowledgeable about the Chinese mainland if one struggles to survive in capitalist hell?

I know that capitalist hell. having completed a two-year stint as a teacher at an international school there. If you don't make RMB 20'000 (or about the same amount in HK$) you are doomed. A cross-harbour bus trip from anywhere in HK Island to Kowloon sets you back RMB 9 (8,9 HK); where in the mainland does anyone pay such a bus fare?
A bus trip from downtown to, say, Yuanlong, costs around 14; a trip to the border by train so you can escape to far more tranquil and affordable Shenzhen costs an astounding HK$ 36 from the Tsimshatshui terminus, or less if you board somehwere closer to Shenzhen.

Then you are dealing with landlords who know their station and expect you to know yours; rental is a tenant's biggest overhead.

Anyway, that is "millie's" world, and he or she is relishing it! McDonald's food is not more expensive there than it is in Guangzhou!

But his or her contributions in this thread are baseless and unhelpful, apart from arrogant and condescending. I wonder why anyone who is an "educator" and who harbours such views comes to work to China. Or came here - Millie might have lived here before. Then again, millie may never have been to Asia, for all we know.

This is why it is useless to defer to posters who just point out the pecuniary potential of TEFL in the PR of C. If money motivates you, why don't you stay home? You deserve better treatment, higher pay and more job stability than you can ever get in China! You must have a crooked agenda if you feel compelled to move to China!

I have said enough about teachers' remunerations packages; there is nothing to add; a FT gets treated relatively well. By no means does this lend itself to the interpretation you can take home a rucksack full of gold. You are not really needed here, so you are not really encouraged to stay in China for years and save precious foreign currency that you remit to some other country. Most FTs are on sufferance - they are welcome to experience China and to earn their time here as FTs. The CHinese money is supposed to serve the Chinese people; and yes, millions of Chinese buy property on incomes around 4000 to 5000 yuan; some earn more. And yes, banks do extend loans or mortgages NOW.

All the rest of these braggeries are worthless hype! I know FTs that make U.S. $ 4000 in CHina; I know engineers and managers from ITaly or Canada that get paid RMB 15'000 to 25'000; I also know the working conditions of virtually the majority of FTs, that is, of thousands of my peers, and these salaries are set at 3000 to 9'000.
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vikdk



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676

PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bet poor Larry will get a headache when he reads this Roger beauty -
Quote:
This is why it is useless to defer to posters who just point out the pecuniary potential of TEFL in the PR of C

and I'm sure he'll change his name from Paradine to Panadol in honour of that fine sentence Laughing

Roger me 'ol mate - my mission in this thread is to tell folks you can earn reasonable money here - but you have to be good both at your job and at manouvering within in the Chinese education market to do it - so if i make money here, why should i go home? The only outcome of this sort of game is me poking my tongue out at you and saying "you go first" - nobody wins there do they Wink

Now what you should do is let sleeping dogs lie - everybody can understand your Rogerspeak for "10 years here so i must be the king", but you look like that emperor guy who had no clothes, but expected everyone to say how fine he looked - sonny it just doesn't work Rolling Eyes


Last edited by vikdk on Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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millie



Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 413
Location: HK

PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roger, you may have missed your vocation.

One of the signs of a great comic is to be able lead the audience on, straight faced, but only after a moments refection do they realise that they have been led down the garden path and have swallowed a whole pile of complete nonsense.

Yours is a nice attempt but unfortunately there are just too many pieces of the totally absurd for anyone swallow this one whole.

That is what you are trying to do, isn�t it?
Shocked

If not, then you really have soiled yourself in a terribly embarrassing way in public.
Best clean up before too many notice.
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vikdk



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676

PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roger just take this as pay back time for all the rude nastyness you've spread around these forums in the past Twisted Evil
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Jizzo T. Clown



Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 668
Location: performing in a classroom near you!

PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roger wrote:
I also know the working conditions of...thousands of my peers, and these salaries are set at 3000 to 9'000.


Shocked I just started a thread on sarcasm, but I think this is pure BS.
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Gregor



Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 842
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia

PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who is this millie character??
Man oh man. 5000RMB a month is not only perfectly livable, it's a salary that, living here in China, affords SOME teachers to save TWICE as much as they EVER could in England.
Mind you, two times nothing is nothing.
Still. I've had teachers come to work for me at that salary. A couple lived comfortably (and they'd go out to the bar with us, occasionally) on two thousand a month. ONE guy insisted he was perfectly happy staying at home, and he'd even have us over every now and then. It was always BYO, but he always had HIS own, as well, plus a DVD to watch, and this guy swore that he saved between 1,500 to 2000 kuai a month.
Allow me to do the math. That bloke saved at LEAST 2400 pounds that year.
OK. Not a huge amount. But that's a LOT more than nothing.

Then you have me. I was at 9000 kuai a month, and managed to save almost nothing, BUT I now own a VERY nice place in downtown Shenyang and I only have two more years before I pay it off.
Again, allow me to do the math:
At 600 pounds (at 15 kuai to the pound) per month salary, I qualified for a mortgage. it's a five-year mortgage, so that it would be paid off by 2009, BUT! My salary increased later on, and I was able to pay so much more against the principle that I reduced the pay-off time by a year.
Mind you, this is in a luxury apartment building in Heping District. I'd be really interested to hear about millie buying anything more than LUNCH anywhere in England with a salary of 600 pounds a month.
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vikdk



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676

PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what's up gregor - we making the krap pay and long hours at EF look pretty uninviting - go recruit somewhere else
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Gregor



Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 842
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia

PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
we making the krap pay and long hours at EF look pretty uninviting

You reckon? How's that? The business I just said about buying a home and all that is straight up.

I'm not recruiting now. I have all the teachers I'm going to need until after I go. I don't need anyone new. If you want to work at EF Dalian, you'll have to wait and talk to my replacement in a couple of months.

But I don't see how EF is such a bad deal, unless you just don't want to work. It's decent (i.e. not exceptionally high, but not bad) pay, it's reliable and secure, and usually the schools are supportive. I harp on this because newbies need to have some good posts to find about EF - I submit that the people who bash EF are:
A: People who don't want to work.
B: People who are unprepared to act professionally (i.e. they were expecting a "dancing bear" job but then they were asked to actually TEACH)
C: And this is the smallest group, in my extensive experience with EF - teachers who had a bad experience with the CM or the DoS. But even THOSE are as much the fault of the teacher as the other people involved - it's almost always poor communication rather than malicious intent.

That's all there is to it. Bash all you want. That's fine. I won't get upset at all. But I WILL continue to defend the organization, because it deserves serious consideration and a bit of respect.
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millie



Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 413
Location: HK

PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gregor wrote:
the people who bash EF are...People who don't want to work.

Gregor, please note that Roger has the official designation as Master Jokester here, so you cannot wrest that mantle away from him with just that effort. For a start, you forgot the punch line:

the people who bash EF are ...People who don't want to work (wait for it)�..for long hours for a pittance. Very Happy

Now, that is funny.

This, below, was a good attempt at a rib tickler too:

Quote:
a VERY nice place in downtown Shenyang

It certainly brought much more than a smile to my face to read �nice� and �Shenyang� in the same sentence Razz
(adding "VERY" was a deft touch too.)

Please keep working on your material � it shows a lot of promise but still a way to go to before you usurp the King of Absurdity.

Just one final suggestion if I may.

When you are using this �humour of the absurd� genre, it�s best not to let reality intrude too much.
Such as case is when you mentioned
Quote:
�two times nothing is nothing.�

It sort of destroys the atmosphere and if you study the �Master� (aka Roger), you will notice he never lets the authentic taint his stream of absurd fantasy.
In an odd sort of way, it makes the story even more believable - until of course you realise with that he has taken you for a long ride into the ridiculous.
A form of genius, don�t you think?


Last edited by millie on Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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vikdk



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676

PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the salesman is at work again, ringing on the doorbells - putting his foot in the door - opening that darn suitcase - and blah blah blah - the same 'ol silvermouth salespitch Laughing

greg me 'ol mate
1. if EF is an English company why don't you recruit qualified teachers there - is it something to do with low wages offered - and don't give the franchise excuse - education aint hambugers!
2. can EF meet the 100rmb/hour mark - I know two teachers with French as their first language who can command 150/hour - for such a fine company I hope you will tell me that 100 is norm with you guys - remember folks the answer greg will want to give us doesn't take into consideration travelling time or class prep
3. why the shared accom - imagine if you had to bunk up with a roger Shocked
4. imagine going to a slivermouth DOS like gregor with your gripes - better the Chinese boss at least then you get a real lesson on how to survive (or not) in this environment.

No Mr. salesmen i don't want to buy any of that wonder floor polish - and i don't advise any of you guys to do so either Very Happy
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Gregor



Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 842
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia

PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's a "slivermouth"?
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