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Red Baron
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Posts: 17
Location: Indiana
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 Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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Paul, are you familiar with the concepts of "Projection" and "Transference"?
It sounds like YOU are the one with the issues.
AJ |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:46 pm Post subject: Re: dangerous combination |
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| shikushiku-boy wrote: |
I wish I could tell you that I quit my job with the big, etc., etc. Japanese corparation, and went on to a better, higher paid job...but I didn�t. I raised the white flag and ran away home. I fought the Corparation, and the Corparation won!
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I will also remind the OP that almost without exception, the big 4 chain schools will not rehire you a second time if you quit your contract in the first year. ECC will not hire you if you quit mid-contract at another company.
Maybe he didnt know that his request to get re-hired at his old employer was futile.
I had the same thing happen to me last month, but only because I participated in a legal strike against the university. I have since found another job two weeks later, from scratch.
Perhaps he is barking up the wrong tree here. |
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D.O.S.
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 108
Location: TOKYO (now)/ LONDON
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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shikushiku-boy
Now, for various reasons (that I�d perfer not to go into), I�m desperate to
return to Japan. But, frankly, it�s turning out to be very, very difficult. |
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| The thing is, if I�m lucky enough to get another shot at working in Japan, I don�t to make the same mistakes as before. Please, somebody, tell me how to work successfully with a Japanese boss. |
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| So, if you work successfully with your Japanese boss/manager, any advice or information you can give me will be gratefully received (as will envelopes stuffed with 10,000 yen notes). |
Shikushikuboy, despite the fact that Herve claims you are a racist (I don't like those) who has a smug and terrible attitude (who doesn't) I'm going to step down from the bleachers (the best seats in the house) and try to help.
If you are desperate to return here, there are thousands of jobs available. This issue with EFL in Japan (as I see it) is the lack of secure high-paid EFL jobs, not low paid ones. If you are a Native English speaker with a Bachelor degree (in something) from one of the Big 4 English speaking nations, you shouldn't have any problems at all with a bit of effort! Keep your chin up, chap!
How to get along with your managers? This is more difficult. But in my years here (beginning in the mid-80s) I have found that if you dress the part, be non-threatening (smaller stature or puppy dog eyes help) you can do it. Most importantly, simpy do your job in a professional manner. It's quite easy, if you are willing to be humble and agreeable for the slave wages they pay. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:02 am Post subject: |
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I�ve seen some gaijin just bend over and take whatever the company dishes out, while maintaining the appropriate facial expression. And it seems to work quite well. One of these gaijin became a Nova assistant trainer (big whoop!).
I�ve seen some gaijin become hyper-pseudo-Japanese employees (e.g. going into peko-peko overdrive to get what they want), and that seemed to work quite well too.
I�ve tried the first approach. But it only lasted about six months. Then my big, fat mouth got me into all sorts of trouble. I�ve never been able to do the peko-peko thing convincingly. I�m sorry, but I�m just not made that way.
So, if you work successfully with your Japanese boss/manager, any advice
or information you can give me will be gratefully received... |
Ok, let's get this conversation back on track.
You recognize that you have an attitude problem, or whatever you call it with your own mouth. No offense. Your words. Yes, there are those 2 ways of remedying the situation, but that depends on the individual, and you aren't like them.
So, don't be like them, but since you were here before, you know the score. You also said you were "desperate to return". Fine. Learn to suck it up. That doesn't mean bending over and "taking it". It means learning to adapt, which means biting your tongue if you have a complaint, but it doesn't mean keeping totally silent. Learn who to talk to with complaints and when to speak to them. Learn which battles are worth fighting and which are better left alone.
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I want to know how to work in harmonious coexistence with
my Japanese employer. Hopefully, a harmonious coexistence
based on mutual respect...
I was rather hoping to avoid a unidirectional/absolutist approach
to workplace relations. |
Harmonious means different things to different people. Here, it means not raising a fuss outwardly. Don't rock the boat for all to see. However, as I mentioned above, there is a thing called nemawashi, which in essence means making alliances behind closed doors before meetings start (which are usually just to rubber stamp decisions made in nemawashi anyway).
Learn the pecking order, too. Foreigners are usually lowest on the list, but if you make the right friends, things can change. Just don't expect that to happen overnight. And, there is an old saying that says keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer. Here, I would extend that just to say don't p!ss off the higher-ups because, as you have found, you will lose, sometimes by sheer virtue of being a foreigner, which is easily replaced.
When disputes arise, you wrote:
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There are 2 possible outcomes:
The boss wins (I get my gonads served up to me on a plate)
I win a totally Pyrrhic victory (my gonads are served up to
me at a much later date).
I want avoid both of these outcomes.
I would like a mutually satisfactory resolution. |
So, it's a black or white situation? That is a major problem. Life is rarely black and white. Fight the good fight, ignore the pointless battles, and work for a compromise, but do so in the right way.
In the end, there will always be work for people here, I believe, even despite the current situation. You just have to know how to manage the situation. Eating crow is not drinking hemlock, so I suggest you learn how to do it. You don't have to "go native", but you can learn some proper business etiquette and ham it up from time to time. I've been here 8 years and feel I don't know half of what goes on in the business world around me, but I do know how things work a lot of the time. Have I eaten crow? Yup. Did it taste bad? Well, a little, but it was better than having my gonads served up to me on a plate. |
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D.O.S.
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 108
Location: TOKYO (now)/ LONDON
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:08 am Post subject: |
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As he has experienced, teaching here can be stressful. Witness the rage and bitterness flowing in some contributors to this thread.
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Now, for various reasons (that I�d perfer not to go into), I�m desperate to
return to Japan |
I hope she is worth it! |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| D.O.S. wrote: |
| [If you are desperate to return here, there are thousands of jobs available. This issue with EFL in Japan (as I see it) is the lack of secure high-paid EFL jobs, not low paid ones. If you are a Native English speaker with a Bachelor degree (in something) from one of the Big 4 English speaking nations, you shouldn't have any problems at all with a bit of effort! Keep your chin up, chap! |
If you have been here since the 1980's you would know that high paying EFL jobs tend to go to those who have the requisite experience training qualifications and connections. They are not to be found at the eikaiwa entry level. In fact taking cost of living and deflation into account, EFL wages have actually gone backwards and people are being paid a third less than they were 10 years ago.
You can make good money teaching EFL but that means stringing three or four jobs together and working on your days off and teaching privates. The OP first has to learn how to work here without piss-ing off his employers first though. If he cant handle the entry-level jobs how will he handle the better paying, more responsible jobs if he doesnt have the basics down yet? As some other poster mentioned, maybe him and working in Japan for Japanese employers are not a good fit for each other, but its his demand for a salary thats driving his decision?
There are thousands of jobs available. Yes there are, there are also thousands of equally qualified people running around Japan chasing after crumbs. 180,000 salary for a full time ALT or dispatch job. Lots of work but at slave wages. Doesn he really want to come back and work for those kinds of wages?
He did also mention he worked here before, he has a degree, he quit his eikaiwa Big-4 job, bailed out and now wants to come back. You are not telling him anything new. |
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D.O.S.
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 108
Location: TOKYO (now)/ LONDON
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:23 am Post subject: |
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I'm not telling him anything new, Herve? If I'm not, then at least I hope I'm providing him with some confidence which you have attempted to rip from him.
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| If you have been here since the 1980's you would now that high paying jobs tend to go to those who have the requisite experience training qualifications and connections. They are not to be found at the eikaiwa conversation level. In fact taking cost of living and defalation into account, wages have actually gone backwards and people are being paid a third less than they were 10 years ago. |
Yes I would know that. Thank you for agreeing with what I wrote.
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| There are thousands of jobs available. Yes there are, there are also thousands of equally qualified people running around Japan chasing after crumbs. 180,000 salary for a full time ALT or dispatch job. Lots of work but at slave wages. |
Thank you for agreeing with me again. There are also many qualified people chasing after highly paid positions.
If he's willing to put in some sweat he'll certainly be able to get a job. A perfect job? I doubt it. But is your job perfect?
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| Doesn he really want to come back and work for those kinds of wages? |
He did write that he was desperate, didn't he? Did you even read what he wrote before attacking him?
It is actually very easy to get along with Japanese managers, as I have outlined. Look the part and be humble to them, and leave your rage and gain your ba-lls attacking other gaijin teachers to compensate  |
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D.O.S.
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 108
Location: TOKYO (now)/ LONDON
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:31 am Post subject: |
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Red Baron
Paul, are you familiar with the concepts of "Projection" and "Transference"?
It sounds like YOU are the one with the issues |
It's that obvious, isn't it. I'm happy I'm not the only one to see the 'rage'.
It's easier to take it out on gaijin teachers on the net while bowing to your masters on this island. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| D.O.S. wrote: |
| It sounds like YOU are the one with the issues |
It's that obvious, isn't it. I'm happy I'm not the only one to see the 'rage'.[/quote]
D.O.S
Im not about to discuss aspects of my personal and private life with you, but but those who know me know that if I sound like Im in a 'rage' or angry these last few months, I have very good reasons for it, and its something you have not the faintest idea about so Im not going to bother justifying myself to you.
It has nothing to do with the thread at hand, but lets say there is more to me than meets the eye.
The issue here is not about me anyway.
Its about a guy who has trouble with living in Japan, he has trouble with authority, knowing how to live here without stepping on toes and anatagonising his bosses, and trouble with his bosses attitudes towards him. Trouble with how other foreigners he works with behave. Trouble with accepting constructive criticism and making me the issue instead of him. Shooting the messenger.
Im not the one looking for a job. Im not the one with an attitude about my employers. Im not the one who has problems with authority.
Bowing to his masters on the island? What the f-k does that mean? Does that mean I take it up the ass because I live in Japan and have a Japanese employer? Am I an uncle Tom because I work for a living? Because I have learnt to work the system to my advantage and get well paid for what I do? In 19 years in Japan I have never been unemployed and though I have worked at many universities I have probably only been dismissed (involuntarily not renewed by the university) at perhaps three of them, and they were part time positions.
These were not rinky-dink entry level NOVA eikaiwa jobs either. |
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D.O.S.
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 108
Location: TOKYO (now)/ LONDON
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:07 am Post subject: |
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PAULH
Im in a 'rage' or angry these last few months, I have very good reasons for it, |
I suspected this. Now I know it. Just don't take it out on others. If you need some personal counselling send me a personal message and I'll try to help you. Have you ever tried drphil.com? He's looking for people for a new show:
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| Is Your Spouse a Domestic Dictator?Does your spouse require everything in the house to be done a certain way? Is he or she very demanding, even on the verge of being verbally abusive? Do you feel that your spouse is too anal when it comes to household chores? Is the division of labor unfair? Does your spouse expect you to do it all? |
http://www.drphil.com/plugger/respond/?plugID=10070
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PAULH
Does that mean I take it up the ass |
I don't know you. I personally disapprove of it, but whatever rocks your cave, go for it! It's the 21st century, baby!
Let's just all work together as best we can here. |
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khmerhit
Joined: 31 May 2003
Posts: 1874
Location: Reverse Culture Shock Unit
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:03 am Post subject: |
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Oh, dear me.
Gentlemen, Gentlemen!!
(And any ladies, too.)
Do you know what you need?
You need to do what the cool
people do, the coolest of cool
Japanese, that is (to generalize).
You could all certainly benefit from a ...
holiday in Cambodia.
Try it and see!   [/quote] |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:14 am Post subject: |
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Just so we are clear on the issue.
DOS doesnt think teaching EFL at a university in Japan counts as a career or a legitimate profession or job even though hes teaching in one himself.
DOS thinks only tenured foreign professors with PhDs and teaching careers from overseas can legitimately call themselves academics, despite about 2000 university teachers attending JALT conferences every year. teachers here are just pretending to be edcuators becaus ethey are in Japan, a non-English speaking country.
DOS is a misogynist against Japanese women
DOS has never, nor will he ever teach in a conversation school, and has probably never taught English here either.
DOS has lived here for 19 years but evidently doesnt like Japanese people.
DOS has so far not provided one iota of advice to the OP on how to solve his job problem, but instead has engaged in a flaming war to discredit and humiliate me, as if i dont know what im talking about.
DOS is not an economic migrant, while I am.
This fits a familiar pattern that i see on here constantly. You cant argue logically and rationally stay on message so you aim below the belt by making personal attacks which is what i thought would happen.
DOS, Im proud of you, you have really excelled yourself |
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D.O.S.
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 108
Location: TOKYO (now)/ LONDON
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:23 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
If you are desperate to return here, there are thousands of jobs available. This issue with EFL in Japan (as I see it) is the lack of secure high-paid EFL jobs, not low paid ones. If you are a Native English speaker with a Bachelor degree (in something) from one of the Big 4 English speaking nations, you shouldn't have any problems at all with a bit of effort! Keep your chin up, chap!
How to get along with your managers? This is more difficult. But in my years here (beginning in the mid-80s) I have found that if you dress the part, be non-threatening (smaller stature or puppy dog eyes help) you can do it. Most importantly, simpy do your job in a professional manner. It's quite easy, if you are willing to be humble and agreeable for the slave wages they pay. |
This is the advice I have submitted to the original contributor. He can follow it, take part of it, or ignore it. But it is honest advice. I think is situation is not as bad as he thinks. I also don't consider him "racist", "full of himself", or "arrogant" based on his request for help on this forum.
Mr. Hackshaw, my advice to you is to seek help. |
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D.O.S.
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 108
Location: TOKYO (now)/ LONDON
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
If you are desperate to return here, there are thousands of jobs available. This issue with EFL in Japan (as I see it) is the lack of secure high-paid EFL jobs, not low paid ones. If you are a Native English speaker with a Bachelor degree (in something) from one of the Big 4 English speaking nations, you shouldn't have any problems at all with a bit of effort! Keep your chin up, chap!
How to get along with your managers? This is more difficult. But in my years here (beginning in the mid-80s) I have found that if you dress the part, be non-threatening (smaller stature or puppy dog eyes help) you can do it. Most importantly, simpy do your job in a professional manner. It's quite easy, if you are willing to be humble and agreeable for the slave wages they pay. |
This is the advice I have submitted to the original contributor. He can follow it, take part of it, or ignore it. But it is honest advice. I think is situation is not as bad as he thinks. I also don't consider him "racist", "full of himself", or "arrogant" based on his request for help on this forum.
Mr. Hackshaw, my advice to you is to seek help. |
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D.O.S.
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 108
Location: TOKYO (now)/ LONDON
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
If you are desperate to return here, there are thousands of jobs available. This issue with EFL in Japan (as I see it) is the lack of secure high-paid EFL jobs, not low paid ones. If you are a Native English speaker with a Bachelor degree (in something) from one of the Big 4 English speaking nations, you shouldn't have any problems at all with a bit of effort! Keep your chin up, chap!
How to get along with your managers? This is more difficult. But in my years here (beginning in the mid-80s) I have found that if you dress the part, be non-threatening (smaller stature or puppy dog eyes help) you can do it. Most importantly, simpy do your job in a professional manner. It's quite easy, if you are willing to be humble and agreeable for the slave wages they pay. |
This is the advice I have submitted to the original contributor. He can follow it, take part of it, or ignore it. But it is honest advice. I think is situation is not as bad as he thinks. I also don't consider him "racist", "full of himself", or "arrogant" based on his request for help on this forum.
Mr. Hackshaw, my advice to you is to seek help. |
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