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N. Korea issue
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Big John Stud



Joined: 07 Oct 2004
Posts: 513

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I pretty much agree with most of what womblingfree wrote but would like to add.

What country has benefited most by bush's unjust invasion and occupation of Iraq?
China! Since the invasion there has been almost no mention of human right violations in Tibet. China has also recently past a law that if Taiwan formally declares independents, China has the right to invade.

When Saddam Hussein's Sunni regime was in power, Iraq and Iran kept themselves in check having fought a 10 year gruesome war. But now thanks for Bush's unjust invasion and occupation, Iraq's majority Shi'a Muslim have taken power. Shi'a Muslim are also in power in Iran so basically Bush eliminated one of Iran's worst enemies. Now all Iran has to do is worry about the U.S. Great White Satan, and Israel.

There is speculations that another reason why Iran is now pursuing nuclear weapons besides not having to worry around Iraq is how quickly the U.S. invaded Iraq. KIM Jong Il has along claimed to have weapons of mass destruction even when Saddam Hussein was honestly saying he did not have such nor was he trying to develop such weapons. North Korea has been alleged to be involved with making counterfeit dollars, drug and weapon trading yet who does the U.S. invade?

Bush and his republican party has made the world more dangerous! The sad thing is that many democrats did not try to stop the invasion either. Amazing how the most powerful country in the world could be run by so many people and have so many citizens who ignorant about the international community.
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MrCAPiTUL



Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 232
Location: Taipei, Taiwan

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John, for what it is worth, they are ignorant about his domestic policy, too. He hasn't done very well on the home front, either. He couldn't run a business and he can't run a country. Granted, a big portion of his first term was the after math of Clinton, much in the same way that the first term of the next president will be the after math of Bush, etc.

That is what truly amazed me - that he legitimately won a 2nd term in office after everything was said and done. That spoke volumes about the current state of this nation, I think. He was reelected.

Some people said, Kerry doesn't stand for anything (and they were right, he wasn't a great candidate either) and at least with Bush we know what we are getting. To them I said, yeah, you are getting a bunch of bullshit. You KNOW what Bush's agenda is and how horribly he runs the country. The next guy could, possibly be worse (meaning kerry, at the time) but he may be a hell of a lot better, too. Yet the majority chose to stick with Bush. Now, that same majority is furious with him. Even though he hasn't done ANYTHING different than he did in his first term in office! Kinda sad, actually.
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womblingfree



Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

guest of Japan wrote:


- The Sunshine Policy was a policy by South Korea, not the United States.


Yes but it was the direct result of improved relations, through mediation, between all countries involved.

guest of Japan wrote:
- North Korea broke the arrangement made with the Clinton Administration by pursueing its nuclear enrichment program.


Didn't this occur as a direct result of the Bush administrations calling off of all talks? Clinton made it clear that any pursuing of a nuclear program would result in the bombing of Nort Korean facilities. Bush has allowed the nuclear research within North Korea to continue, and tried to avoid air strikes by playing up their nuclear capabilities.

Much more fun and oil to be had in the Middle East.
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jc1977



Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 29
Location: Nerima

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everything you need to know about Kim Jong Il you can find in Team America: World Police. Those guys weren't too far off with their depiction.

And way back in the thread, I saw someone claim India will eventually be a superpower ... please. India is so poor and overpopulated they'll never be in the game.
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womblingfree



Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jc1977 wrote:
I saw someone claim India will eventually be a superpower ... please. India is so poor and overpopulated they'll never be in the game.


Yes, and how can the US ever be a superpower when they are all fat, unemployed , living in trailers and have to join the army to get an education?

Oh...hang about, that's not an accurate reflection of the entire country and I based it entirely on an episode of 'The Dukes of Hazard'. Rolling Eyes

Using the power on the interweb I have found an easy to read example of Indias growth.

http://www.geocities.com/akhandbharat1947/Superpower.html
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Nismo



Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 520

PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a sidenote, with all of the N. Korea developments, are (some of) the Japanese still whinging about American troop presence in Japan?
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womblingfree



Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826

PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nismo wrote:
On a sidenote, with all of the N. Korea developments, are (some of) the Japanese still whinging about American troop presence in Japan?


May I suggest a Chinese army barracks in your backyard to protect you from the unlikely invasion of Al-Qaeda bogeymen?
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PAULH



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan

PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nismo wrote:
On a sidenote, with all of the N. Korea developments, are (some of) the Japanese still whinging about American troop presence in Japan?


75% of the Us troops are on the main island of Okinawa which is less than 0.1% of Japan's land mass. The Army bases are on privately owned land in some cases and Okinawans can not access their own property.

It would be like having 30,000 US troops stationed at an active heliport and airforce base on Manhattan island. You would be rightly pi-ssed off with all the noise and night flights too.
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Like a Rolling Stone



Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 872

PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

womblingfree wrote:
Nismo wrote:
On a sidenote, with all of the N. Korea developments, are (some of) the Japanese still whinging about American troop presence in Japan?


May I suggest a Chinese army barracks in your backyard to protect you from the unlikely invasion of Al-Qaeda bogeymen?
Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Captain Onigiri



Joined: 20 Jan 2005
Posts: 103
Location: fly-over land

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I saw someone claim India will eventually be a superpower ... please. India is so poor and overpopulated they'll never be in the game.

That was what was said about China 25 years ago but look at them now. India is taking the same arc of growth as China did but are a few years behind. Insert the word "underpopulated" instead of overpopulated and it was what people said of the U.S. 125 years ago.
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Like a Rolling Stone



Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 872

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with everyone. We don"t need guns and bombs. Make love not war! Cool
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whatthefunk



Joined: 05 Aug 2003
Posts: 130
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the lack of care in the younger generations of japanese frightens me. they all agree that north korea is very scary, but unless north korea can be destroyed with shopping, excentric hair styles, or models of anime characters, they really dont seem to care.
"i see your 7 missles, and raise you a guchi bag and an electrocuted beaver on my head!!"
and what worries me more is that the LDP is gradually chipping away at the no war clause of the constitution... こわい。。。
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Cshannon



Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big John Stud wrote:
Bush and his republican party has made the world more dangerous! The sad thing is that many democrats did not try to stop the invasion either. Amazing how the most powerful country in the world could be run by so many people and have so many citizens who ignorant about the international community.

Not out to defend anyone here.. but to suggest that the Bush administration is "ignorant" of what they are doing is an awfully big stretch. They may not care about the feelings of the rest of the world (one of the 'perks' of being the sole superpower), but that doesn't mean they are not fully aware of just about everything that goes on. American intelligence is by far the best funded in the world, and it's extremely doubtful you've pointed out anything 'revolutionary' or 'hidden' here that hasn't been thought of by the American government ad nauseum.
They have their own agenda, and while mistakes may or may not have been made while pursuing it (remember the whole WMD thing turned to be a blatant lie, not a mistake), I'm sure they have their reasons for invading Iraq (my guess being for the oil, as well as setting up a permanent American military presence in Iraq to further confine Iran and Saudi Arabia), but we only have the media to go by. In other words we simply aren't privy to the sort of high-level intelligence involved in power-politics (or at least not until well after the fact), only the powerful and elite are. But the American gov't is not stupid, or ignorant for that matter. They wouldn't be so dominant if they were. They call the shots, we just get to wait and see what happens. The best we can do at the moment is guess why.
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Big John Stud



Joined: 07 Oct 2004
Posts: 513

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cshannon wrote:
Big John Stud wrote:
Bush and his republican party has made the world more dangerous! The sad thing is that many democrats did not try to stop the invasion either. Amazing how the most powerful country in the world could be run by so many people and have so many citizens who ignorant about the international community.

Not out to defend anyone here.. but to suggest that the Bush administration is "ignorant" of what they are doing is an awfully big stretch. They may not care about the feelings of the rest of the world (one of the 'perks' of being the sole superpower), but that doesn't mean they are not fully aware of just about everything that goes on. American intelligence is by far the best funded in the world, and it's extremely doubtful you've pointed out anything 'revolutionary' or 'hidden' here that hasn't been thought of by the American government ad nauseum.
They have their own agenda, and while mistakes may or may not have been made while pursuing it (remember the whole WMD thing turned to be a blatant lie, not a mistake), I'm sure they have their reasons for invading Iraq (my guess being for the oil, as well as setting up a permanent American military presence in Iraq to further confine Iran and Saudi Arabia), but we only have the media to go by. In other words we simply aren't privy to the sort of high-level intelligence involved in power-politics (or at least not until well after the fact), only the powerful and elite are. But the American gov't is not stupid, or ignorant for that matter. They wouldn't be so dominant if they were. They call the shots, we just get to wait and see what happens. The best we can do at the moment is guess why.



I am not arguing with you! Pretty much what you wrote is probably true. I just want to explain what I meant by being ignorant and how the bush adminstration is miss using their power.

They should of known invading and occupying Iraq was going to be a mess. I new Iraqis would resort to guerrilla fighting once the U.S. took over Iraq. And once minority Sunnis were out of power, Iraq and Iran would become friends. What were they thinking. That Iraqis were going to heal to the U.S.?

Lincoln once said fighting one war at a time is one too many. Never start a second war! What did Bush do? Now the U.S. military is stretched too thin. And the cost of these wars!

Thanks to Bush Osama is doing exactly what Che wanted to do. Have a bunch of Vietnams around the world.
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Cshannon



Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big John Stud wrote:
I am not arguing with you! Pretty much what you wrote is probably true. I just want to explain what I meant by being ignorant and how the bush adminstration is miss using their power.

They should of known invading and occupying Iraq was going to be a mess. I new Iraqis would resort to guerrilla fighting once the U.S. took over Iraq. And once minority Sunnis were out of power, Iraq and Iran would become friends. What were they thinking. That Iraqis were going to heal to the U.S.?

Lincoln once said fighting one war at a time is one too many. Never start a second war! What did Bush do? Now the U.S. military is stretched too thin. And the cost of these wars!

Thanks to Bush Osama is doing exactly what Che wanted to do. Have a bunch of Vietnams around the world.

Again though, this is all highly debatable. Not saying I disagree entirely, but it's not really that simple. A lot of people now believe that despite publicly stating otherwise, Bush et al never really intended it to be a "quick war" - rather they planned from the get go to stay long-term. I was more about using the cloak of "legitimacy" to get a permanent foot-hold in the oil-rich middle east (as opposed to just relying on Israel all the time to do the dirty work), as a policy of containment more than anything. At the same time they could both monopolise the gigantic Iraqi oil-fields and have a built up military presence - a double blow to a country like Saudi Arabia. And though everyone talks about the deficit and cost of the war, I doubt it's a co-incidence that the American economy is doing quite well (and once/if the oil starts really flowing it'll pay dividends). Of course all this is just one take on the situation.

But don't forget it remains to be seen whether it is a "mess" for American or not. In regards to Iraqi freedom/democracy/sovereignty etc. it's definitely ugly, but nobody seriously believes Bush et al give a damn about that anyway. They are doing it all for their own benefit, and if they can pull it off and maintain control in the end, one way or the other, then success will be theirs.
As for terrorism, we all know that's 95% pure propaganda. Despite 9/11, the threat's never really been that big, and the Iraq war was never about that anyway. A whole lot of manipulation went on, and the Bush admin. got away with it (even got re-elected if you recall). Love em or hate em, those Americans are pretty clever at what they do.

I'm still waiting to see how they're going to deal with North Korea. That should be interesting.
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