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wintersweet
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 345
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
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 Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:01 am Post subject: |
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The salary and perq range is pretty variable indeed. There was one job that included "access to Japanese rock garden" and "free hot coffee, iced coffee, hot tea, iced tea, iced peach tea, etc." I was ready to sign up! 
(I'm glad the article I ran across posted so much interesting discussion.) |
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chinagirl
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 235
Location: United States
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| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:02 pm Post subject: salaries |
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| Don't forget private high schools and junior high schools...they can pay more than some uni jobs, with about the same teaching load. My advice is to send out an intro letter and resume if you hear of a school you like. Private schools are a great way to go, in my opinion. With a master's you should be able to find a good job in secondary schools, solo teaching. |
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SeasonedVet
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 236
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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So one of the reasons I asked is to find out if the same irony exists here as in say Thailand.
If a guy puts his/her all into PHd and does all the research that is expected and then to make 250 000 or 300 000 (sometimes 500 000)
In the case of the guys making the 500 000 or 600 000 it definitely seems worthwhile. Plus it might look good on the resume when they get back home.
But if the idea is to just complete the PhD or whatever higher degree it is, and take care of family/wife/kids or even the guys who are single: Is there trhen any dishonor in working a job like JET or Eikaiwa and making the same 300 000 a month? and still do your higher degree?
For some it might be more that the Eikaiwa or JET would just kill or damage their ambitions or enthusiasm. I guess it depends on the person.
But from what I have been reading here it seems that for the lucky ones within the 50% they are all set. But for the ones in the other 50% who find it more difficult to get jobs at Universities and difficult to get tenure it seems so ... I don't know ... I am imagining myself in that situation and just feeling the stress already. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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2005 salaries for Kansai universities has been posted here.
http://www.palesig.blogspot.com/
Just scroll down about a page. |
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zignut
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 33
Location: Bay Area, CA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| PAULH wrote: |
| [A doctoral degree] is not to make one a better teacher but to make one a better scholar i.e. to hold or possess knowledge that one can bring to the field, not necessarily the classroom. |
Yes, this has always been my understanding and a major gripe with the educational system in my home country. I am sorry to see it repeated in Japan.
I was fortunate enough to attend a college that did not put much emphasis on publication in their hiring/tenure practices. Instead, student assessment featured largely in a prof's perceived merit by the administration. I've always thought that while research and publication have their place, it's unfortunate that they are so often conflated with teaching, which is an entirely different skill. This is why my orginal question was largely rhetorical: "Will additional course time and a doctoral dissertation really improve the quality of one's teaching instead of just one's record of publication?"
One of my goals in pursuing an MA and going abroad is to teach at the level I want without having to get a PhD. In the US, you can't really expect a decent job at even a community college or 2-year school without the three letters next to your name on the CV. My plan has been to circumvent this by teaching abroad. Since I understand that a PhD does little more practically than to empower a person to argue via publication with other PhD holders, I'd like to avoid the time and money required to attain one. However, as this thread has shown me, there is the familiar practical value of a PhD in the hiring/tenure process as in the States. A pity. |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| zignut wrote: |
I was fortunate enough to attend a college that did not put much emphasis on publication in their hiring/tenure practices. Instead, student assessment featured largely in a prof's perceived merit by the administration. I've always thought that while research and publication have their place, it's unfortunate that they are so often conflated with teaching, which is an entirely different skill. This is why my orginal question was largely rhetorical: "Will additional course time and a doctoral dissertation really improve the quality of one's teaching instead of just one's record of publication?" |
True to a point, but are people with just the Masters necessarily better teachers? Not in my experience...indeed, I'd argue that the percentage of cr*p teachers with just the MA is the same. I mean, what is it about most Masters programs that would make for better teaching? These programs spend the exact amount of time on teaching teaching than PhD programs--heck, most are understood to be mere feeder programs for PhD programs. Also, just how much can any of us be taught to teach? Even MA/PhD programs in Education/TESOL (where there is more of an emphasis on pedagogy) can only give you a limited number of potential tools. I went far beyond what I learned for my MA TESOL, for instance, in my first semester teaching full-time after receiving the degree.
| Quote: |
| One of my goals in pursuing an MA and going abroad is to teach at the level I want without having to get a PhD. In the US, you can't really expect a decent job at even a community college or 2-year school without the three letters next to your name on the CV. |
Oh come on--90% of community college teachers in the States have only a Masters, and it is commonly understood that many CCs are suspicious of PhD applicants (do they understand our mission and will they really stay?). Indeed, the only exception to this is in California, where the state CCs know PhDs are so desperate for work anywhere that they would never leave. However, even in California, the emphasis for new CC hires is placed on teaching ability--successful PhD applicants would have needed to demonstrate that they could teach better than the other (including MA) applicants.
Some articles on CC hiring practices:
http://chronicle.com/jobs/news/2006/02/2006021701c/careers.html
http://chronicle.com/jobs/2003/12/2003121201c.htm
http://chronicle.com/jobs/2002/04/2002041901c.htm
http://chronicle.com/jobs/news/2005/09/2005090101c/careers.html |
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zignut
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 33
Location: Bay Area, CA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| taikibansei wrote: |
| Indeed, the only exception to this is in California, where the state CCs know PhDs are so desperate for work anywhere that they would never leave. |
And guess where I live at the moment. ;]
I do take your point though. I am certainly generalizing based on a couple friends who teach here in CA. It's nice to hear that the state of CC hiring is not quite so dire as I thought.
| taikibansei wrote: |
| True to a point, but are people with just the Masters necessarily better teachers? |
Hm, I don't believe I posited this. Rather, I'm agreeing with you that the PhD portion of a graduate education will have little bearing on education (and will have much more to do with scholarship). I wouldn't take it this one step further to say that a teacher with a PhD will be worse than one with a Master's.
My eagerness to claim the MA as sufficient for teaching (again, rather than scholarship) stems primarily from my desire to circumvent all those extra years of school. It would be nice to know that an MA would be sufficient to land me an entry-level University teaching job in Japan, and that the experience I'd gain after that would be sufficient to sustain a reasonable life. If there's a trend towards doctoral degrees in the hiring process, you can see why this would be disappointing for me. Right now, I'm not interested in publishing in scholarly journals. Rather, I want to teach a language I love in the manner I wish, and travel the world while doing so.
It may be that Japan is not the best place for me, but that's another discussion I'm sure. |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| zignut wrote: |
I do take your point though. I am certainly generalizing based on a couple friends who teach here in CA. |
CA is a weird place.... Back in 1991, I was doing the hiring for a university ESL program. We wanted to hire one person very part-time (5 hours per week at $12/hour). Our ad said that an MA was preferred (though we would have considered someone without).
One third of our 24 applicants had PhDs..... 
I left California in 1994...and don't look back.
| Quote: |
| It would be nice to know that an MA would be sufficient to land me an entry-level University teaching job in Japan, and that the experience I'd gain after that would be sufficient to sustain a reasonable life. If there's a trend towards doctoral degrees in the hiring process, you can see why this would be disappointing for me. |
Again, an MA remains sufficient for finding full-time, non-tenure positions in Japan. Yes, you'd need a PhD for most tenure-track positions, but there are so few of these open to foreigners (I've seen only 3-4 this year so far in all the humanities) that I wouldn't worry about it.
At least over the short (3-6 years) term, you can still make good money here at university positions. At least if you are single--raising a family when you are going from contract to contract, as Paul has suggested, is very difficult. |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:47 am Post subject: |
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I am still sitting on the fence for pursueing a PhD, but partly because I don't see the relation betwen what I want to do and the expense. Also as mentioned earlier, the amount of jobs available doesn't seem to be so great.
Sadly enough, I do see some PhD holders in Japan who can't teach, perhaps because they have gotten burned out and realize that the rounds of student surveys don't measure the quality of teaching, but rather how 'satisfied' (or entertained) students are in many cases. |
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wintersweet
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 345
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
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| Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 3:42 am Post subject: |
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I hope there's room for someone with a new MA to find an entry-level college-teaching job in Japan. I'm hoping to apply for April 2007 jobs, with an MA that I should get in March of 2007. I realize this is probably asking for a lot.
Unfortunately, I don't know if there will be any application deadlines that haven't passed by the time my conference session proposal gets accepted (knock on wood, sometime in early October) or my attempts at publishing succeed. Some of the April 2007 jobs had application deadlines in July of 2006...
I guess (based on the article) I'll at least be a memorable applicant, solely by being female! |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 4:59 am Post subject: |
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wintersweet wrote:
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| I don't know if there will be any application deadlines that haven't passed by the time my conference session proposal gets accepted (knock on wood, sometime in early October) |
I got my university job this April, so my job hunting experience is still fresh in mind. Most of the deadlines for univ hiring were finished by end of October. I had barely a handful that went further than that.
What you and I look for may be different, though, so who knows?
Also, I couldn't look very well in sites that advertised only in Japanese, so that limited me, too.
And, another factor that may limit you is whether you've taught in Japan at all. |
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wintersweet
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 345
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
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| Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| And, another factor that may limit you is whether you've taught in Japan at all. |
Yeah, that's definitely going to work against me. I have about a year of American university assistant-teaching, a year of tutoring, and should have a quarter or two of experience in an IEP by March. But nothing in Japan yet, and I realize that eliminates many college-level jobs, if not nearly all. |
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