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furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
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 Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| Aramas wrote: |
There are no positive aspects to being a 'kept man'. |
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| Aramas wrote: |
| He will likely feel helpless and trapped, and in that situation may turn to alcohol, drugs or infidelity. |
A contradiction, no? |
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Aramas
Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 874
Location: Slightly left of Centre
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| furiousmilksheikali wrote: |
A contradiction, no? |
While I might be inclined to agree, I somehow doubt that the woman in such a man's life would see it that way  |
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jr1965
Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 175
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| I have not been in the situation but having your wife support you is almost like being over 30 and having to ask your mother for beer money. Who is really comfortable asking their mother for $20 to go drinking(or wife)? |
JZer,
Come on; do you really believe that? Naturegirl's man isn't saying he wants to take time off and go on holiday or out drinking; he's asking her to make the money for a period of time so that he can go back to school full time and finish his degree. He'll be WORKING; he just won't be making money for it.
The faster he gets the degree out of the way, the faster he can get back in the job market--versus doing the work & full-time grad school thing at the same time. Anyone who's done this knows it can be brutal. That's perhaps why Naturegirl and her man have decided to work out some kind of temporary arrangement. In what way does this type of situation = the man being "kept"?
What matters, though, is not what OTHERS think is right for him. All that matters is what HE (and Naturegirl) thinks is best. Who cares what other people think? Half the time, people aren't thinking. If the man feels that he needs to work while he goes to school (b/c otherwise, he'll feel less than a man asking his partner to support him), then by all means, he should get a job. But if he would prefer to go the other route, why shouldn't he? |
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furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| Aramas wrote: |
| furiousmilksheikali wrote: |
A contradiction, no? |
While I might be inclined to agree, I somehow doubt that the woman in such a man's life would see it that way |
Maybe that's where I'm going wrong. *goes to get another beer from the fridge* |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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JZer,
Come on; do you really believe that? Naturegirl's man isn't saying he wants to take time off and go on holiday or out drinking; he's asking her to make the money for a period of time so that he can go back to school full time and finish his degree. He'll be WORKING; he just won't be making money for it. |
I think you missed the point. It was not that he was just taking time off to drink. The point is that when the husband ask to ask his wife for money it may be frustrating at times. If a man has a job and wants to go drinking with his friends he does but it becomes a little more complicated when he asks his wife for the money. If she is not open minded then this could cause tension. This is about losing freedom to do what you want not about a guy sitting around drinking beer. |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Why would he have to ask for money. My wife doesn't have to ask me, unless it is a big purchase and the same goes for me. As long as both partners have a bank card, then there are no problems. I would never want my wife to have to ask me for money, that is demeaning. She works as hard as me, actually much harder, the only difference is that I get paid. |
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Deicide
Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:50 am Post subject: |
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One thing I have always wondered about married folks is; don't you get tired of hanging out with the same person, day in, day out, no breathing space, no time for yourself, no time just to sit back relax and enjoy the silence (not in the Depeche Mode way however)? How in the name of Zeus does that work?  |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| All human experience is transient and passing and the human relationship (marriage) is pretty much the apex of this transience; my take on this as someone who has seen every marriage around him crumble and fall to dust (and these were the ones that everyone said would last 'forever', thank the gods I am not married myself); rethink spending your hard earned money.... |
Of course the pleasure you get out of spending the money on something other than your spouse would also be transient. Is there anything you bought when you were and child and still get the same pleasure out of it as today? Is there anything that you buy today that will give you pleasure 20 years from now?
So, I think the logic you are using to say that one should not support their spouse when they don't work because marriage is transient would also lead us not to buy material things as well because the joy we get out of them is transient. |
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Deicide
Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
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| All human experience is transient and passing and the human relationship (marriage) is pretty much the apex of this transience; my take on this as someone who has seen every marriage around him crumble and fall to dust (and these were the ones that everyone said would last 'forever', thank the gods I am not married myself); rethink spending your hard earned money.... |
Of course the pleasure you get out of spending the money on something other than your spouse would also be transient. Is there anything you bought when you were and child and still get the same pleasure out of it as today? Is there anything that you buy today that will give you pleasure 20 years from now?
So, I think the logic you are using to say that one should not support their spouse when they don't work because marriage is transient would also lead us not to buy material things as well because the joy we get out of them is transient. |
It's a bit more complicated than that...eigentlich  |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| Deicide wrote: |
| One thing I have always wondered about married folks is; don't you get tired of hanging out with the same person, day in, day out, no breathing space, no time for yourself, no time just to sit back relax and enjoy the silence (not in the Depeche Mode way however)? How in the name of Zeus does that work? |
Short answer: No. What does marriage have to do with breathing space? I think you have a weird sense of marriage.
Don't you ever get lonely? Don't you worry what you will do when you get older? |
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Deicide
Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| Gordon wrote: |
| Deicide wrote: |
| One thing I have always wondered about married folks is; don't you get tired of hanging out with the same person, day in, day out, no breathing space, no time for yourself, no time just to sit back relax and enjoy the silence (not in the Depeche Mode way however)? How in the name of Zeus does that work? |
Short answer: No. What does marriage have to do with breathing space? I think you have a weird sense of marriage.
Don't you ever get lonely? Don't you worry what you will do when you get older? |
Sure I get lonely and then I hang out with people and I recharge and then I enjoy my breathing space and so on. Hmmm...to the second point I will answer as follows:
"Ultimately, we're all dead men. Sadly we cannot choose how. But, we can decide how we meet that end in order that we are remembered as men." ~ Proximo |
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Aramas
Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 874
Location: Slightly left of Centre
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:05 am Post subject: |
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Do I ever get lonely? Sometimes, but then sometimes I get hungry too, and I don't move in with a chef.
Do I worry about what I'm going to do when I'm old? Um...no? Like everyone else, when I get old I'm going to die. It really doesn't matter what I do between now and then, just as nothing that anyone ever does means anything in the big picture. As long as I have fun and don't hurt anyone then I really don't see what the big deal is. It's a mystery to me as to why some people attribute their own insecurities to everyone else.
Some people enjoy being joined at the hip to someone else, while others find it creepy. Where it gets really weird is when couples go all evangelical on our arses and try to show us singletons the error of our ways. Fortunately we can just sit back and watch, then years later we get to hear about what was really going on in their relationship - as it spectacularly self destructs  |
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Deicide
Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| Aramas wrote: |
Do I ever get lonely? Sometimes, but then sometimes I get hungry too, and I don't move in with a chef.
Do I worry about what I'm going to do when I'm old? Um...no? Like everyone else, when I get old I'm going to die. It really doesn't matter what I do between now and then, just as nothing that anyone ever does means anything in the big picture. As long as I have fun and don't hurt anyone then I really don't see what the big deal is. It's a mystery to me as to why some people attribute their own insecurities to everyone else.
Some people enjoy being joined at the hip to someone else, while others find it creepy. Where it gets really weird is when couples go all evangelical on our arses and try to show us singletons the error of our ways. Fortunately we can just sit back and watch, then years later we get to hear about what was really going on in their relationship - as it spectacularly self destructs |
Mate; this is a brilliant post. It could have easily come from my finger tips as well and I was thinking about adding something in the same vein but instead I'll just add this:
Long live freedom; long live the kingdom of singledom!  |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| It's a bit more complicated than that...eigentlich Wink |
While, I might agree with your arguement, your logic stinks. You can't argue that marriage is transcient and then just say one should buy something rather than support their partner through school. |
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Deicide
Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
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| It's a bit more complicated than that...eigentlich Wink |
While, I might agree with your arguement, your logic stinks. You can't argue that marriage is transcient and then just say one should buy something rather than support their partner through school. |
It wasn't an argument from transience, rather one from man's ultimate inability to create absolute trust such that such an endeavour could be endorsed as a consequence, rationally speaking. Transience plays a role within the argument only inasmuch as it contributes to the ultimate failure of love and trust.  |
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