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sallycat
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 303
Location: behind you. BOO!
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 Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:33 am Post subject: |
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| for some of us it's more of a full-stop. |
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sallycat
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 303
Location: behind you. BOO!
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:36 am Post subject: |
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| Thel wrote: |
the white woman in her relationship with the Asian male becomes like the N.A man in his relationship with the N.A woman.
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possibly an interesting point, but not all of asia is poor. also, not all teflers are north american. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| But that's a digression. My take is that a person marrying another for a visa alone, whether TEFLer or immigrant to N.A, is doing a serious disservice to the visa-granter, unless the visa-granter's fully aware of the motivation and agrees. |
Actually maybe we should feel more sorry for the person receiving the visa. When they wake up in a strange land with no family or friends they may realize that there is more to life than money. |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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Does that mean the the collision of loins looks like this: ,,,,,,,,,,
In my experience it provokes reactions more like this: ?????????
ANd then: $%&*�!!!! |
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Thel
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 52
Location: Kitchen table
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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Hi sallycat:
Good point. Not all of Asia is poor. I was thinking more in terms of the majority; and in that sense my statement obtains. Likewise, you're right to say that not all N.A are white, but, again, I was thinking in terms of the majority (not necessarily the majority of N.A per se--this would still be white--, but the majority of North American's who can afford to travel extensively and who get--in the case of TEFL--the requisite qualifications for teaching. In this sense the number of whites eclipses that of other peoples in N.A).
Hey JZer,
Again, thanks for the timely insight. Of course, you're right. How rarely we tend to see the other side of the coin. Bias, I guess, or lack empathy, or lack of perspective...whatever the case may be. We usually imagine that the visa granter is getting the short end of the stick, but, yes, those people who marry only for a visa, and find themselves in a strange culture, friendless, will eventually suffer a great deal--probably sooner than later. Great point.
Thel |
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Thel
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 52
Location: Kitchen table
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| sallycat wrote: |
| for some of us it's more of a full-stop. |
 Only the lucky.
Thel |
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Thel
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 52
Location: Kitchen table
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Justin Trullinger wrote: |
Does that mean the the collision of loins looks like this: ,,,,,,,,,,
In my experience it provokes reactions more like this: ?????????
ANd then: $%&*�!!!! |
In my experience, it's often about ellipses: "That...was...uh...interesting."
On good days, exclamation marks: "That was interesting!"
On average, I'm left to puzzle out my performance after a painful period: "That was interesting."
Yrs,
Thel |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:52 am Post subject: |
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Hey JZer,
Again, thanks for the timely insight. Of course, you're right. How rarely we tend to see the other side of the coin. Bias, I guess, or lack empathy, or lack of perspective...whatever the case may be. We usually imagine that the visa granter is getting the short end of the stick, but, yes, those people who marry only for a visa, and find themselves in a strange culture, friendless, will eventually suffer a great deal--probably sooner than later. Great point.
Thel |
I think this is probably a result of knowing too many Asians in the U.S. and in Asia. Moving to the west does not necessarily make one happy. While you may have more material things in the west, one thing does not change for most people (struggling to pay bills). Many people struggle to pay bills no matter if they walk to work in Asia or drive a BMW in the west.
Furthermore I have seen some Asian men who were quite lonely because they had a hard time meeting women in the west. I don't want to be attacked by some flamers but I do know that some Asian men have a difficult time on the women front in the west. |
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Thel
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 52
Location: Kitchen table
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| Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:42 am Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
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Hey JZer,
Again, thanks for the timely insight. Of course, you're right. How rarely we tend to see the other side of the coin. Bias, I guess, or lack empathy, or lack of perspective...whatever the case may be. We usually imagine that the visa granter is getting the short end of the stick, but, yes, those people who marry only for a visa, and find themselves in a strange culture, friendless, will eventually suffer a great deal--probably sooner than later. Great point.
Thel |
I think this is probably a result of knowing too many Asians in the U.S. and in Asia. Moving to the west does not necessarily make one happy. While you may have more material things in the west, one thing does not change for most people (struggling to pay bills). Many people struggle to pay bills no matter if they walk to work in Asia or drive a BMW in the west.
Furthermore I have seen some Asian men who were quite lonely because they had a hard time meeting women in the west. I don't want to be attacked by some flamers but I do know that some Asian men have a difficult time on the women front in the west. |
This is true. More people struggle and gets stressed about bill-paying than not. And this holds for the globe. Another thing is cultural expectation. Sure, more material will likely swing your way in the West, but there's the keeping up with the Jones' syndrome. If someone in Vietnam, used to eating very scantily and living in crunched quarters with nary a material luxury at his disposal, he'll come to the West, do just about any job, and suddenly there's a television, eventually a car, etc. But then he looks around and understands that his position in society relative to others isn't so hot. And this is what it all comes down to: context. What would have pleased him in Vietnam derives from the fact that others would also be pleased. When pleasures become commonplace, they cease, in some way, to be pleasurable. Also, there's the western ethos of always pursuing more material, something that's probably tempered in many Asian societies (not to say materialism doesn't exist everywhere, but likely the emphasis on family and community is stronger there--very generally speaking--than in N.A). I guess for immigrants, wherever they're coming from, relocation itself is not necessarily a panacea. But then again I think it can be. There are some people who really just seem happy because they are in a different culture, regardless of what is being earned.
You know what it is for us? In some way we want to move to better understand ourselves (yeah, the ol' "find yourself" thing). We realize that living here, there will always be a degree of institutionalized insularity (media; legislation; etc.) that will preclude us from understanding the bigger picture, whatever the hell that may be. We need to step beyond this and immerse ourselves in a different culture to understand where we came from in a more objective way. It's less about desiring the foreign culture in and of itself and more about that foreign culture acting as a foil for our N.A, culturally-inculcated/socialized selves...I hope that makes sense. That's why I think that people well-travelled, or people who have travelled to one markedly different culture and have remained there, are more saavy than their fellow home-of-origin countrypeople. We'd like to join those ranks.
Well, cheers,
Thel |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:42 am Post subject: |
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| Also, there's the western ethos of always pursuing more material, something that's probably tempered in many Asian societies |
I think that younger Koreans and Japanese are just as materialistic as young Americans.
Last edited by JZer on Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Thel
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 52
Location: Kitchen table
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| Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 4:31 am Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
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| Also, there's the western ethos of always pursuing more material, something that's probably tempered in many Asian societies |
I think that younger Koreans and Japanese are just as materialist as young Americans. |
You'd know better. I'll keep that in mind. I would have assumed it of the Japanese, but not of the Koreans.
Thel |
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tedkarma
Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 1598
Location: The World is my Oyster
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| Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| After six years in Korea, I would tend to think that it would be hard to be MORE materialistic than Koreans. Particularly when it comes to the latest electronic gadget or anything that might be perceived as a "prestige" item. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:15 am Post subject: |
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| After six years in Korea, I would tend to think that it would be hard to be MORE materialistic than Koreans. Particularly when it comes to the latest electronic gadget or anything that might be perceived as a "prestige" item. |
Especially the ones who change cell phones every year or even every six months. A male friend of mine probably earns $1,200 a month but is always buying the lastest video games and video game systems. |
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sallycat
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 303
Location: behind you. BOO!
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| Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
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| Also, there's the western ethos of always pursuing more material, something that's probably tempered in many Asian societies |
I think that younger Koreans and Japanese are just as materialistic as young Americans. |
quite possibly more so. |
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Thel
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 52
Location: Kitchen table
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| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| sallycat wrote: |
| JZer wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Also, there's the western ethos of always pursuing more material, something that's probably tempered in many Asian societies |
I think that younger Koreans and Japanese are just as materialistic as young Americans. |
quite possibly more so. |
Okay, JZer and sallycat,
but where did they get their ethos from? Korea and Japan are examples of the Asian economic miracle, a transformation from traditional forms of economic structure to western ones. There's something to that.
Yrs,
Thel |
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