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merlin

Joined: 10 May 2004 Posts: 582 Location: Somewhere between Camelot and NeverNeverLand
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Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:15 am Post subject: |
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I'm skeptical of the 100:1 ratio as well. In many cities US 300,000 will only buy half a house which you can then turn around and rent out for half of 3,000 - which comes to 1,500.
To buy 3 rental apartments in any city with a good rental market you'll neeed 300,000 per apartment - so you'll need about a million dollars.
Sure, there are cities with cheaper prices but you won't get the same rental income from those due to lower wages.
Then there's the issue that old folks often can't handle being landlords - when I was in university my neighbor drove the old lady below him to an early grave with his all-night parties and vomit on her veranda. Of course, I never participated in those ... Anyway, old people renting out often find they can't cope and people can walk all over them. |
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tedkarma

Joined: 17 May 2004 Posts: 1598 Location: The World is my Oyster
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Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:39 am Post subject: |
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| merlin wrote: |
I'm skeptical of the 100:1 ratio as well. In many cities US 300,000 will only buy half a house which you can then turn around and rent out for half of 3,000 - which comes to 1,500.
To buy 3 rental apartments in any city with a good rental market you'll neeed 300,000 per apartment - so you'll need about a million dollars.
Sure, there are cities with cheaper prices but you won't get the same rental income from those due to lower wages. |
In fact, you will get closer to the 100:1 by buying LOWER cost units. You'll find the the high end of the market will be very difficult to get good returns from. Why do you think there are so many rich slumlords? (I'm not advocating buying properties in slums - but there is a reason why people buy them). The bottom end of the market offers higher returns - in spite of great management problems.
Again - don't buy houses or individual apartments. Buy multiple-unit buildings even if it is only a duplex. Their prices are based on the income they produce. Period. In fact, the greater the number of units in a property - the more the price will be determined by exactly the amount of income produced. Very large properties will often be priced primarily by their NET income even.
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Then there's the issue that old folks often can't handle being landlords - when I was in university my neighbor drove the old lady below him to an early grave with his all-night parties and vomit on her veranda. Of course, I never participated in those ... Anyway, old people renting out often find they can't cope and people can walk all over them. |
Solution: Don't manage your own property. I don't. Pros are worth every penny they are paid.
Rule #2: Don't live on or even near the property unless you want major heartburn.
Renters are just like everyone else. 90% are great, 10% are giant pain in the a*ss. When you have a major problem is when a good manager saves you lots of time and money. Handle an eviction incorrectly and you are in for a lawsuit and perhaps HUGE expenses/costs. Even handle it correctly and you can still be sued with huge costs involved. Professionals know how to do it, they usually have attorneys on staff or at least on retainer - for you personally - no problem.
Ever want to try to collect past-due rent from a violent psychopath?
Not me thanks. I invest for the return on investment - not the social interaction . . .
Hire a pro. It will save you money in the long run.
Up to you.
Percentages and ratios - also up to you.
My experience investing over the last 25-30 years says it can and is being done all the time.
Skeptics abound. No problem, it's what they do. I'm not trying to SELL you anything - only reflecting on what has worked for me. Personally.
Property is only one of many investment options. I like it as it doesn't jump up and down every day and it doesn't crash. Even it if does take a small dive - renters still pay their rent. |
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TeacherTim
Joined: 10 May 2005 Posts: 89 Location: Deep undercover
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Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:25 am Post subject: |
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I plan on retiring to the Philippines in a few years. My wife and I have just bought 1300 sqm of land and built a small house for under 12,000 UK pounds - but be warned it is starting to get very expensive.
As a back up we also have a business and rent out a small house in the U.K. |
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globalnomad2

Joined: 23 Jul 2005 Posts: 562
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Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:27 am Post subject: |
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Again, to remind those who are interested, northern Maine properties...very low taxes and you can get beautiful land for $800-1000 an acre.
I agree with Ted about the property managers. They are also pros at getting the best tenants! I got my own tenants for my house once and regretted it to the extreme! |
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merlin

Joined: 10 May 2004 Posts: 582 Location: Somewhere between Camelot and NeverNeverLand
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Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| Not questioning your motives, Tedkarma - just wondering if it's still the gravy train it used to be. I don't have much experience with being a slumlord, thats all. Also my history is from expensive markets like California/Hawaii. |
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tedkarma

Joined: 17 May 2004 Posts: 1598 Location: The World is my Oyster
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Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| merlin wrote: |
| - just wondering if it's still the gravy train it used to be. |
I don't know that it was ever a "gravy train" as much as just a good safe stable sound investment. One you don't have to lay awake at night worrying about.
Is it still doable? I think so. Perhaps not in every market everywhere. Yeah, people might have to do a little (or a whole lot of) legwork. That's how it works. |
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Tiger Beer

Joined: 08 Feb 2003 Posts: 778 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| TeacherTim wrote: |
I plan on retiring to the Philippines in a few years. My wife and I have just bought 1300 sqm of land and built a small house for under 12,000 UK pounds - but be warned it is starting to get very expensive.
As a back up we also have a business and rent out a small house in the U.K. |
I'm more into the Philippines plan as well. So many islands (and decent small cities) plus they speak English. Easy to do things. A country that focuses on nurses as most of us are going to get old at retirement age anyways isn't bad either!
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As GlobalNomad and others with US plans. Surprised you'd be looking in PA/NY and such. Most of those regions are rustbelt and horrible economies. People are moving out of those regions and heading southward for sunshine. I grew up in MI and no plans to go back. But saw Detroit has large houses for as low as $20,000! But you'd never want to even consider living there if you actually go there.
You being in TX.. why not somewhere along the Gulf Coast? Either Corpus Christi region or Brownsville/Harlingen? The latter in particular has a large number of winter snowbirds and the prices are real low - probably some of the lowest in the nation. I took a trip down there this winter with the goal of checking out the quality of life I'd have if lived there, and I liked it. |
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Otterman Ollie
Joined: 23 Feb 2004 Posts: 1067 Location: South Western Turkey
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Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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I'm surprised that noone has mentioned Turkey (as well as slightly relieved) prices are going up in the more popular and well developed areas but its a huge country and there are still many many cheap properties waiting to be discovered by the buyer willing to put in a bit of legwork .
Recently a collegue bought a brand new 3 bedroomed apartment for less than 35 grand sterling .In the 6 months since he moved in he's had 3 seperate offers to buy it the highest almost 50% more than he paid for it . When the political seesaw has settled and a new mortgage system comes on line prices will jump up dramatically as this country moves closer to E.U. membership . Now is the optimum time to get on the property ladder in this country . No I'm not an estate agent ,just someone who owns no less than 3 properties over here bought cash over a 15 year period . |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005 Posts: 3898 Location: Pittsburgh
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Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| However, I am skeptical about the 100:1 monthly income numbers for rental property cited above. The real estate boom has pushed house prices up considerably, but the rental rates have yet to catch up. |
You could do better than 100:1 in some small town college towns in the US. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005 Posts: 3898 Location: Pittsburgh
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Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Sure, there are cities with cheaper prices but you won't get the same rental income from those due to lower wages. |
That is one big falicy. I have looked into rental properties and one can earn about the same a month renting to someone in Boulder with hire housing prices than in Indiana, PA. I saw a house a year ago for $40,000 that would bring in $800 a month in rent before taxes and expenses. It was a duplex. |
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globalnomad2

Joined: 23 Jul 2005 Posts: 562
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Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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Tigerbeer: The Elmira NY area looks nice in every single photo I've seen of the houses, and I must have looked at 100 easily. Of course there are no jobs there, but for my purposes it's for retirement. You won't find houses of this quality for $66,000 in Texas...Since I own one in Houston on the market for $158K, I can buy one of the excellent $66K triplexes or fourplexes in Elmira or surrounding area, invest the remaining cash, and then get rental income.
Last edited by globalnomad2 on Tue May 08, 2007 12:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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MELEE

Joined: 22 Jan 2003 Posts: 2583 Location: The Mexican Hinterland
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Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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Just for the record,
Mexico also have retiree visas. You have to show either a large lump sum in an account or have monthly income from what ever source of about 2000 dollars. Though many US retirees in Mexico only ever have tourist visas and they just come each winter. |
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Samantha

Joined: 25 Oct 2003 Posts: 2038 Location: Mexican Riviera
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Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| Actually, this FM3 (Rentista) is meant for anyone who has income from abroad supporting them while in Mexico. It is not solely for retirees who show pensions, but also for anyone working online or any other outside the country income. The amount of income you must prove (and demonstate from the 3 most recent bank statements) is closer to $1100.00 US per month for a single. If you own a house in Mexico, that number is cut by about one half. Savings hanging around your bank account will also go toward proof that you are solvent, but each INAMI has slightly different criteria. |
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Teacher in Rome
Joined: 09 Jul 2003 Posts: 1286
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Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| When the political seesaw has settled and a new mortgage system comes on line prices will jump up dramatically as this country moves closer to E.U. membership . Now is the optimum time to get on the property ladder in this country . |
I take your point, but do you think Turkey will get EU membership? Even if it does happen, it could be years down the line. What would that mean for buying houses etc there? |
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