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biffinbridge
Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 701
Location: Frank's Wild Years
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 Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:10 am Post subject: EF |
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6000 in the KSA is a disgrace. Don't work for IH, Bell, EF, Berlitz or any of the other factory orgs out here as the pay and benefits are dire.
Finding a good job in the KSA is much harder than it used to be. In fact, if you're here to save some dosh, it's not even the best place for that now. It certainly isn't worth the dull monotony, dreadful apartheid, mindless office hours and appalling administration that assault you on a daily basis. This time I've been here a couple of months and I'm off soon as I've found a much better paid job elsewhere with 18 weeks (paid) holiday a year. Yep, with an oil company again.
BAe is about the only gig that's worth it, oh and maybe a few other jobs with the military. It's about money in the desert unless you are here for Islam. BAe pay about $80,000 a year and really look after you.
Trapezius talked about 'learning ESL'; you don't learn ESL here with these students, old and past it teachers and regimes that encourage you to pass even your dimmest, wildest students. Here you do everything you're not supposed to do in a classroom because the students have poor study skills and other things are generally on the agendas of the people who are in charge of you. The factory schools are hungry for contracts, the government programmes are after meeting targets for Saudi-ization and so on.
And, what is it about the the course selection in the arab world? You go to a place like Poland, where you can make $3,000 a month now....your students are great, you use books like 'Cutting Edge' and 'Market Leader' and everything's great from a work perspective. Out here the best qualified instructors in the world choose the likes of 'Streamline' , 'R. Stone', 'English Please' and 'Workplace'. Maybe it's a reflection of age and indifference more than anything. Maybe they've gone native and have become too lazy to design relevant materials...I just don't know.
Back to the OP though. You're obviously 'green'. That offer is tragic. |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| you use books like 'Cutting Edge' and 'Market Leader' and everything's great from a work perspective. Out here the best qualified instructors in the world choose the likes of 'Streamline' , 'R. Stone', 'English Please' and 'Workplace'. Maybe it's a reflection of age and indifference more than anything. Maybe they've gone native and have become too lazy to design relevant materials...I just don't know. |
I don't know how great Cutting Edge or Market Leader are. We use Cutting Edge for evening classes to outside companies and individuals. I haven't heard any complaints, but nor have I heard anybody being wildly enthusiastic.
I remember looking at various of the latest course books for the CELTA last year. Nobody was thrilled to bits. All had the following features:
a) The overall approach was pioneered by the marketing department, not the education department.
b) All of them had gaps for the students to do the exericise in the books (so the next lot would have to buy a new one) and none of the gaps were ever anything like big enough.
c) The pictures were pure decoration and had no pedagogic purpose whatsoever.
d) In the unlikely case any of the authors had ever read a book on English grammar, said book would not have been revised since the 1960s.
Streamline for all its faults still has the best approach for teaching grammatical structures (and the fact that mastery of basic grammatical structures is one of the great problems with Saudi students might explain its enduring popularity). Its main problem is not what it does, but what it does not do.
English Please was specifically written for Arabic students who had the problem that they couldn't write English. We have students in the evening classes who were doing the first volume of Cutting Edge, but still had problems because they could neither read nor write the alphabet. Institutions that use English Please use it before they start on the Beginners version of Headway or whatever. It may have its faults, but there is nothing else in the market that fills that niche.
I've never come across R. Stone (apart from the CD) or workplace.
Another problem that needs bearing in mind is that any book invites complaints. And a book written for the Emirates will still raise complaints in Saudi. On my first EFL gig in the Kingdom I was given 16 copies of Headway, a black marker pen and a three page list of pictures to be blacked out. After I did six or seven it was time to go home so I photocopied the list of banned pictures and told the students whose books hadn't been bowdlerized to black out the pictures themselves. There was an initial flurry of interest when they first looked at the pictures, followed by groans of disappointment as they found that you could get more risqu� stuff on Saudi government TV, and no frantic scribbling of pens!
Headway of course is fun for the Middle East. It was written for the then-largest EFL market which was Spain, and the authors hoped to make a killing selling to private Catholic schools, so between bottles of wine and TV nuns it's full of signals for the wrong market. And when the activities for Lesson 2 have you dividing the Saudis into groups and asking for their mother's or their sisters' names trouble can be expected!
There have been attempts to tailor books to the Gulf Market. The problem is first that what is good for the rest of the Gulf is not necessarily good for Saudi (Skills in English was written for Oman, but we have had no end of complaints in Saudi), and secondly than when they attempt to localize the book they often get it rather wrong. Interactions was localized for the Middle East, after the publisher's reps were told it was unusable in its present form. The problem was that as part of localization they handed the job over to a load of Arabic English teachers who couldn't write the language without loads of mistakes, and the book proved an expensive embarrassment. |
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Mark100
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:30 am Post subject: |
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All text books have limitations.
The problem is that many places feel the need to have a text book at all.
Sticking slavishly to a text book invariably leads to poor learning outcomes in the majority of instances.
Rather it is better to use a range of material from text books and other sources to suit your target audience.
Of course this involves a lot more work and dedication from the teacher but it is worth it in the long run. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| Tell me, how did we learn and teach languages before the Xerox was invented ? As soon as I see that expression 'learning outcomes' my hand twitches for my Browning. |
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eha
Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 355
Location: ME
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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"Tell me, how did we learn and teach languages before the Xerox was invented ? As soon as I see that expression 'learning outcomes' my hand twitches for my Browning."
This is the most--- possibly the only--- valid bit of educational philosophy I've encountered since I took up Tefling. PLEASE come and give us a workshop!!! |
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Mark100
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
| Tell me, how did we learn and teach languages before the Xerox was invented ? As soon as I see that expression 'learning outcomes' my hand twitches for my Browning. |
I would expect nothing less from a Saudi veteran. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:34 am Post subject: |
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Mark this may be a surprise to you but you do not need to use the latest buzzwords or pretend that you have a brand-new methodology in order to succeed.
The latest educational technology- whether Language Laboratory or Computer Lab is nothing more than a gimmick. Incidentally many Saudis love these glitzy new CALL Labs and think they will provide the 'royal road to learning". They do not.
The truth is that competence in a Froreign Language means thousand of hours of STUDY. Hard work. That is why people do not like it.
Last edited by scot47 on Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:23 am Post subject: |
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[quote="scot47"]Mark this may be a surprise to you but you do not need to use the latest buzzwords or pretend that you have a brand-new methodology in order to succeed.
The latest educational technology- whetehr Language Laboratory or Computer Lab is nothing more than a gimmick. Incidentally many Saudis love these glitzy new CALL Labs and tghink they will provide the 'royal road to learning". They do not.
The truth is that competence in a Froreign Language means thousand of hours of STUDY. Hard work. That is why people do not like it.[/quote]
At the base level I would tend to agree with your take on ESL learning; that learning a second language DOES require lots of study and hard work.
However I have to disagree with your take on so called "buzz words" as you like to call them. Every profession uses so called "buzz words" ...the language you use is what one calls "being an expert" at what you do which separates you from the average "joe" on the street~!
These "buzz words" are the means in which professionals communicate with each other regarding the profession which they have trained and studied and worked in.
Also the so called "gimicks like computer labs, etc" do demand some thought and knowledge of the best way to utilize them in a learning situation; they are just additional tools to assist the learner. I think that older teachers tend to shy away from technology with the excuse that it is not necessary and try to convince people that it is just a gimick. Technology also requires on going "hard work~ study" to learn to use properly.
Technology is here to stay and so it is in your's and the student's best interest to learn to utilize the technology in a way that enhances the student's learning curve.
Is it time to retire maybe??? |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:33 am Post subject: |
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Not yet. I have children and grandchildren to feed and educate. Daughters to marry off.
And as for teaching young man I can assure you that I am better at it than you ! |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:32 am Post subject: |
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[quote="scot47"]And as for teaching young man I can assure you that I am better at it than you ![/quote]
LOL
Last edited by cmp45 on Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Griff-James
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 171
Location: A place full of 18 year olds and endless ale. Not not this time.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| What a nice man. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:04 am Post subject: |
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cmp
We expect technology buffs to know how to operate the 'quote' function properly. |
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MixtecaMike
Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 643
Location: Guatebad
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
cmp
We expect technology buffs to know how to operate the 'quote' function properly. |
Like this? Can I put Technology Buff on my resume now?
Please take note of correct use of Font size, Bold and most importantly Preview buttons before conferring this honor on me. |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:16 am Post subject: |
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[quote="scot47"]cmp
We expect technology buffs to know how to operate the 'quote' function properly.[/quote]
I never said I was a technology "buff".
However I am open to learning more about various technology since it is a requirement of my job. |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| cmp45 wrote: |
| scot47 wrote: |
cmp
We expect technology buffs to know how to operate the 'quote' function properly. |
I never said I was a technology "buff".
However I am open to learning more about various technology since it is a requirement of my job. |
Is this better for you???? |
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