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cornishmuppet
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 642
Location: Nagano, Japan
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 Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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My half a yen's worth...
All this talk of upsetting the food chain seems a little strange to me. So, culling dolphins is a massive no-no, but grossly over-fishing other species like salmon is totally ok? Remember, fish aren't deliberately farmed like cows and sheep (not in the ocean anyway).
Protecting dolphins for their supposed intelligence is also a little strange. Trained guide dogs or carrier pigeons seem to suggest to me that a dolphin's intelligence is nothing to write home about. Its not like they're inventing cars, is it? So what if they're 'cute'? So are cows and sheep.
Providing they aren't culled to a near-extinction level (and I'd be surprised if a handful of villages was capable of that) I have no more problem with dolphins being killed for food than I do cows or sheep or jellyfish, providing its done in a humane way. Dragging a half-dead dolphin along the road is certainly not humane in any sense of the word. |
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furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:05 am Post subject: |
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| cornishmuppet wrote: |
My half a yen's worth...
All this talk of upsetting the food chain seems a little strange to me. So, culling dolphins is a massive no-no, but grossly over-fishing other species like salmon is totally ok? |
Dolphins are being killed because they compete for the fish stocks that have been depleted by overfishing. The problem is overfishing. It is not seperate to the dolphin cull. Who said "grossly overfishing" other species was OK?
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Protecting dolphins for their supposed intelligence is also a little strange. Trained guide dogs or carrier pigeons seem to suggest to me that a dolphin's intelligence is nothing to write home about. Its not like they're inventing cars, is it? So what if they're 'cute'? So are cows and sheep.
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If you don't know anything about a dolphin's intelligence then that is fine. Your comments really are a half-yen's worth.
Babies and most humans don't go around inventing cars either, does that mean they fall within the criteria for being eaten as you seem to have laid out above?
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| Providing they aren't culled to a near-extinction level |
To be honest, extinction is the weakest argument of all. What difference would it really make if the panda or rhinocerus died out?
You finally get one thing right in your last sentence:
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| Dragging a half-dead dolphin along the road is certainly not humane in any sense of the word. |
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DNK
Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 236
Location: the South
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:33 am Post subject: |
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| GreenEyes wrote: |
Simply being a part of a process of spreading information and in turn questioning your beliefs is admirable and needed. But ... many of us are here in Japan. It`s on our front porch (if we allow it to be, that is). Are any of you willing to take this further?
Just curious. |
Well, one could always not eat dolphin (not hard, considering the health risks anyway), AND not eat fish so there's no reason to kill them anymore.
Or complain, but does the Japanese gov't care about some eikaiwa teachers' opinions on "Japanese tradition"? Otherwise, I'd say talking is about all there is to do, save extremist measures, but this board doesn't strike me as the extremist bunch, unless of course I misspell "their"...
Any other ideas? |
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cornishmuppet
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 642
Location: Nagano, Japan
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| Thank you for your comments on my post, Mr Sheik. Since my opinions are wrong and yours are right, please tell me why I should care more about a dolphin than a chicken. |
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furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| cornishmuppet wrote: |
| Since my opinions are wrong and yours are right, please tell me why I should care more about a dolphin than a chicken. |
You gain two point for the correct assertions you made in your last post (highlighted in blue).
Codedals has already posted a link on dolphin intelligence which I think trumps your bizarre or flippant (or perhaps "Flippernt") criteria for intelligence, the ability to invent cars. You may have noticed that dolphins are seaborne creatures without the need for cars and so their ability or willingness to design and build them seems irrelevant. They do appear to have other highly developed social systems, however, and apparently show far greater intelligence in their social organization than chickens which I think is a good mark for giving them greater consideration than chickens. If you think that anything other than a human deserves equal respect then presumably you can't see the difference in value of an ant's life and a dolphin's. If you do see a difference then the burden is upon you to show what the difference is.
Also, you mentioned the fact that fish aren't deliberately farmed like chickens and cows. This would suggest that fish and dolphins are far more closely woven into the ecosystem. Killing dolphins is therefore likely to be more destructive than killing a chicken reared on a farm. I think this is something worth considering.
I also forgot to point out something from your last post but as you've given me another bite at the cherry I'll just quote this part.
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| I have no more problem with dolphins being killed for food than I do cows or sheep or jellyfish, providing its done in a humane way. |
Er... did you not pay any attention to the fact that dolphin meat is likely to have far higher health risks than eating cows, sheep or jellyfish given the high mercury levels? |
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cornishmuppet
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 642
Location: Nagano, Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:16 am Post subject: |
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Thanks again Sheik for your reply. I hope you didn't take too much time out of your day to write it. I loved your word play, by the way, it definitely showed signs of an intelligence at least on a par with a dolphin, if not above.
I have one more question, though, if anyone can answer. Which is safer to eat, dolphin meat or a MacDonald's hamburger? |
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furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| cornishmuppet wrote: |
| Which is safer to eat, dolphin meat or a MacDonald's hamburger? |
I suppose that depends on the dolphin. Personally, I wouldn't eat either. Which would you rather eat, dog poo or cat poo? |
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cornishmuppet
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 642
Location: Nagano, Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:37 am Post subject: |
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Mr Sheik, you officially appeal to my sense of humour. I think cat poo smells better, at least the bit that got on my hand last weekend while digging in the garden didn't smell so bad. Assuming it was from a cat, of course. I make that assumption merely because it had been buried.
I'd rather save eating either for a post-last meal though. |
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Topo Gigo
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 57
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| DNK wrote: |
I don't want to go too far off topic and address a number of fallacies you've made, but I'll say that there is much to be desired when it comes to the "humane" practices set up by developed countries for farming livestock, in the same way there was much to be desired in the "humane" practices of, say, Stalin.
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fallacies? where?
I never said farming livestock was humane, only that there are regulations in place, which is true. I agree, there is much to be desired still, and I think I said as much in my original post.
I don't however believe in the sanctity of life and all meat is murder etc - that concept is a luxury for modern, wealthy humans with no food shortages and no experience of growing/farming/hunting their own food. To eat and be eaten is central to life's very existence. Being intellegent/consious/moral..etc..beings, I don't believe this requires us to put our disney specs on and pretend life isn't so, but I do think that we have a responsibility to our environment, to minimise the damage we do, and to minimise pain and suffering in the animals we domesticate, and not inflict any unnecessarily elsewhere. Unfortunately, we don't seem to be doing very well on this front, but I don't think it follows that if you eat beef and pork that you can then say what the heck, lets eat dolphin and whale too- it would be hypocritical not to. It's like saying 'well I took the lords name in vain so may as well cheat on my wife'. |
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codedals
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 37
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