Job Discussion Forums

[Phil_K]

[Wouter]

Sounds all good but do you have to arrange your own health insurance and what do you pay for this. Do you get aguinaldo, vacacion money and paid during the holidays?

I think that it would be much easier to work for a company. In this case you wont have to do any thing and wont have any costs for what ever if you work for a good company.

A good company will offer you:

Aguinaldo
Pre Vacaciones
Vacaciones
Healtinsurance
Paid Holidays
Pesion
Infonavit

You wont have any cost like

Accountant
Materials
printing invoices
register with the INAMI
income tax

You wont have any hassle with

Register with the hacienda
paying monthly you taxes
saving all your receipts
aranging you own healtinsurace

As I see it only schools benefit from hirering a freelancer. Saves them more then 1000 pesos a month. (depending on the amount of hours a teacher teaches of course). Freelancers be aware of this. Calculate your health insurance into the hourly price that you want to be paid.

Wouter

[Samantha]

I disagree with your crusade Wouter. One size does not fit all and everyone's mileage does vary in Mexico. Self-employment suits many people and not everyone can benefit from "Infonovit" for example . It was not designed with foreigners in mind, but rather to ensure the Mexican working class could own a house. Besides myself, Melee, and one Canadian teacher in my city, all of us married to Mexicans, I don't know any foreign teachers who live in Infonovit housing. It takes lengthy contribution to cash in on that benefit. Many teachers come to Mexico for the experience, on a fairly short-term basis, and aren't concerned with the same benefits as Mexican teachers are. IMSS health insurance can be enrolled in privately, if you possess an FM3 (which you do if you are working legally), and is only about $200.00 USD for the entire year depending on your age.

Leslie made a great post, one I agree with completely. She has the best of both worlds, working for a university plus doing private classes. It's what I did for quite awhile before going strictly to privates. I also praise Leslie for her comments on tax-cheating. It isn't worth the time and effort for the small amount being creatively avoided. Plus it speaks volumes about character and just isn't cool to brag about stuff like that on a public forum. What Leslie posted about bravely doing her own taxes rather than using an accountant is really good advice. I have seen some pretty disorganized accountants here and am not one bit surprised to hear that the teachers' taxes hadn't been remitted.

Leslie wrote:

[Wouter]

what is it all the time that people see my post as crusades. Your not the first one. Funny.

Just want to figure out what would be the best option and ofcourse your right the best option can be different for everybody.

Infonavit is horrible. Most of the foreignt teachers dont use it. Even i dont use it because I bought my own house and I still have to pay for it. There are some options for remodelation but these are quite strict. Also I did some calcatioins and if you want to use the money for buying a house you have to pay so much more then the actual price. I see it as a rip of.

The only who maybe can benefit are mexicans who dont have the option to get a morgage who have rediculas interest rates anyway.

Good info about the IMSS getting it private. Never heard of this. 200 USD is very cheap I must say. Think the school pays more for this per teacher. Thought it was based on salary as they also pay out when you cant work. Would be logical if people that earn more pay more. Funny.

Leslie has done it by the book. Most of the teachers that give private classes outside the school where they are working for wont every mention this to any body.

My original post was to make teachers aware what their rights are. I have spoken to many teachers who had no clue. A lot of them not even having an FM3 because the school didnt cooperate.

I hope with this post that they are better informed and prepared. Dont think that it does harm them.

Wouter

[Samantha]

Wouter; you seem very confused for someone who started this thread with absolutes and positives, giving advice to new teachers on what they should demand from schools.

Wouter wrote:

[Wouter]

Samantha,

I have no idea where you want to go with thread. This is not were I want to go with this thread.

I will leave it with that I am confused and have no idea about infonavit.

Thank you for the information any way. Did not know that people could buy this health insurance. That was new for me as teachers who are contracted by a school get this for free and the employer pays for this.

Are these rates per year??

Dont want to get into details about infonavit. Part my fault as well. For me and as you said a lot of foreign teachers it is money that the employer pays and you cant use. Better leave it at that as I dont think new teachers want to know in detail if there are or arent restrictions on remodeling you house using infonavit money.

I still stand behind my orginal post. I think any teacher should get were they are entitled to. It should not be necesarry to demand this but I think that unfortunately in many cases it is necesarry. Part of this is because a lot of teachers dont know about their rights.

[PlayadelSoul]

The original post in this thread is incorrect in stating that you are "entitiled" to everything listed in the post.

You are entitled to those things that are covered by your contract. If you sign a contract to be paid via the "honorario" route, you are not entitled to many of those benefits. However, your net income will be higher.

If you are working without an FM3 or FM2, you are entitled to nothing. You don't officially exist. After the company pays a fine for employing an undocumented worker, they are not going to be too pressed to pay you what you think you are owed.

A good school runs on a good business plan. Certain percentages of income are designated for different areas of the school. For example, 25% (more or less) of your average income should go to academic salaries. Certain percentages go to administration, electricity, publicity, etc. Of course, the owner has a percentage of profit built in, as well. When the school starts doing better, the employees benefit. They start to see a link between growth and more money in their check.

[Dragonlady]

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[scottmx81]

This thread is a good example of why some people prefer to keep quiet and lurk, and not get actively involved in discussions due to the backlash from others when they disagree. You end up having to spend a lot of time defending yourself and being accused of being on a "crusade", simply for posting what legal benefits employees are entitled to in Mexico.

What Wouter posted was exactly that, the legal benefits or "prestaciones de ley" that Mexican employers are required to give to their employees. If you are employed by the school, you are entitled to the benefits he listed.

If you are not employeed by the school, and are working under a short term contract or a series of short term contracts on a per semester basis, for example, then you are not an employee. In Canada this is called an independent contractor, and there are rules governing whether someone really is a contractor. Even if someone makes you sign a independent contractor agreement because they don't want to pay you benefits or give you the legal benefits as an employee, this doesn't mean squat if the government decides that you really were an employee, and the company can be fined for it if the person ever decides to pursue a claim for employement insurance, etc. I'm willing to bet a similar situation exists in Mexico, though I'm not aware of what the actual law is. But, most foreigners are not ever going to challenge these companies. But, I've heard lots of horror stories on the forums of the opposite situation, for example. A foreigner has a maid being paid formally or informally on a contract basis, and eventually the relationship ends, and the maid goes and denounces you for not giving her these required legal employement benefits. The "innocent" foreigner then finds themself in a bad situation, owing a lot of money and with a lot of headaches. But most foreign contract "employes" aren't going to pursue such claims, so the schools get away with it, it sounds like, even in situations where you really should be classified as an employee rather than an independent contractor.

People are upset with Wouter for giving incorrect information, but he has only outlined what benefits an employer is obligated by law to give to their employees. If you are happy working for 50 pesos / hour as an independent contractor with no benefits, that is fine, but it doesn't make what Wouter said incorrect. But if you are working for roughly the same hourly rate as an employee, but as an independent contractor, at least recognize that you are getting the raw end of the deal.

[Dragonlady]

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[Samantha]

Agree. Again. This has gone full circle. I have given much thought to this and would like to ask Wouter what his teachers are paid for salary, with the understanding that these items he lists are ALL included. This is something MOST important to teachers wishing to come to Mexico. The bottom line.
Wouter, what is the amount of money your teachers take home every month? I am sure you wouldn't mind sharing this with the forum, given you were so straight forward about the benefits that must be included.

[Wouter]

Samatha,

What has this to do with my original post.
I am very sorry but I dont think this is the place to discus salaries. I think average salaries lay around 40 till 70 pesos an hour. I know a school where you can earn up till 120 pesos an hour but here you have to teach at businesses and often have to travel for an hour or more to get to the place and they offer no benefits at all.

If you want to have an idea what teachers earn better ask them. I am not publishing salaries from teachers as I dont think this would be appropriate. Dont think you would like it if your employer published your salary.

Dragonlady,

You said that my original post is incorrect. Could you please let me know what is not right? The only thing that I know is that I didnt mention that what I wrote were the rules for employees and not for contracters. Besides this I think it is correct.

scottmx81,

Thanks for the reply. Got the feeling that nobody appreciated my post.

Wouter

[Phil_K]

I agree with what Wouter is trying to do. His OP was informative, particularly for people thinking of coming to this burocratic (sp?) country and newcomers. I disagree that this thread shouldn't explore other tangents as his basic outline needs qualifying. E.g. what is Infonavit and how does it work (something not even understand by many natives!), how can you work independently, etc. I hope the additional information I've posted helps, I think people's first hand experience is the most valuable. I have certainly learned things from this forum and I've been in Mexico for ages!

[Samantha]

Scottmx81 wrote:

[MELEE]