Job Discussion Forums

[Stephen Jones]

EFL teachers don't like the IPA. When we used Skills in English, the IPA was necessary for the Speaking Course. Teachers hated it.

The fact that the British IPA spelling used would not always reflect the teacher's pronunciation didn't help either.

[veiledsentiments]

[Stephen Jones]

What about Arabic vowel sounds, veiled?

[veiledsentiments]

In theory the IPA should have symbols for them as it does for all the consonants of all languages, but I was never completely sure. I found it interesting that the first vowel sound in the name of the Prophet manages to have a sound that English doesn't seem to have - though I have been involved in some long and fun discussion about this with English and Arabic speakers who know the IPA about which symbol represents it. It is the cause of the still running problem of transliteration and whether it should be Mohammed or Muhammed ... Muslim or Moslem.

The vowel area of the IPA is nearly impossible IMHO because of the huge variance in English dialects. It depends on a person knowing how the writers pronounced the example words for a particular IPA symbol. (ignoring the horror of English written symbols for vowels) I remember looking at example word lists for a particular vowel symbol and in American English the two or three words did not even share the same vowel sound.

VS

[yaramaz]

I went to a IPA workshop a few years ago at the unıversity where I was then working. The teacher trainer was using the silent method for teaching it, eliciting the sounds from us...and I failed miserably. As a Canadian, my pronunciation was way off on almost everything. It was rather embarrassing.

Here in Turkey, I've found that first modelling pronunciation and then writing it out phoenetically using the Turkish alphabet produces spot-on accuracy with students (for getting a Canadian accent, that is!).

[veiledsentiments]

Now there is an absolute joke... teaching the sounds of a language with the "Silent Way." No wonder we get no respect.

VS

[lotsa]

Well I guess if everybody had the same accent we wouldn't be having this discussion, but given we are all different, IPA serves its purpose depending largely on the student.

I've had heaps of students wanting to improve their pronunciation, and I've used IPA to assist them. I have always stressed that the IPA does not serve to change accent, but to change pronunciation - two different things.

I know of one Omani gentleman here who speaks English impeccably, as good as those in the toffy upper class of British society and I have to say its impressive to hear - it was all achieved through self-teaching with the IPA.

[huntjuliehunt]

The Omani man with impeccable speech achieved it through self learning? Another student comes up and wants me to explain pronunciation, I'm gonna hand him the IPA list you people speak of, tell him to go home and do it himself, and sit back in my chair with a nice granola bar and a venti Earl Grey tea with milk.

[temujinsky]

No milk? What? Why no milk?

[007]

Here is a question for you the �grammatical� people!

Why there is no agreement between the Americans and the British on the pronunciation of IRAQ and IRAN?

I have heard most of the Americans, especially TV presenters and Uncle Sam pronounce IRAQ as �Eye-Raq�, whereas the British pronounce it as �Ear-raq�?
The same for IRAN, is it pronounced as �Ear-Ran� or �Eye-ran�?
Or may be, IRAN could be pronounced �Eye-ran,� �Eye-ron,� �Ear-ran� or �Ear-ron.�!!!


Personally, I feel comfortable using �Al-Ear-raq� for IRAQ and �Ear-ran� for IRAN.

I find American English language pronunciation rough and harsh!!!
C'mon Vs, don't tell me that you pronouce IRAQ as "Eye-Raq"!!!

[veiledsentiments]

Heavens no... the problem is that this is the pronunciation that the US military has adopted - which is manned mostly by many poorly educated people who chose to join the military as their best or only option.

I email every newscaster that I hear mispronounce these terms and there are fewer and fewer that make the error on TV now - except for those that do it intentionally. (the arrogant who chose to decide that their pronunciation is better than the correct one...)

I also correct people who say it wrong anywhere I hear them. I usually tell them that it does not sound similar to the sound in the state of Iowa, but the state of Indiana or Illinois. I'm a one person campaign that I am sure many find rude.

VS

[johnslat]

Those who mistakenly pronounce Iraq as EYE RACK and Iran as EYE RAN
will undoubtedly also pronounce Arab as A RAB.
Forgive them, 007, they know not what they do.
Regards,
John
P.S. How many times have I been called 'Merican, as in:

" R U 'Merican?"

which doesn't bother me one iota (I've been called a lot worse.)

[temujinsky]

Oh dear! You have opened a very large can of worms for me. I ... oh heavens ... don't get me started ... or, alternatively, don't start me. The American way of pronunciation is an international curse; not so much in the way Americans mispronounce just about everything English, but the sycophantic way other nationalities ape this American sound. I watched the Australian Open [Tennis] the other week and Jim Courier, in his usual awful manner, calls Jokovic Joe Kuvich. Now, we all know Jokovic is pronounced Jock oh vich, but the malleable Aussie commentator succumbed to Courier's mispronunciation and began calling Jokovic Joe Kuvich. Once Courier had gone, the Aussie recanted and returned to the more acceptable Jock oh vich. I reflected as to why so many American Hispanics allow Americans to mispronounce the simple name Carlos. It becomes Car Low zz ... the oh sound becomes owe and the ss sound becomes zz. What can one do in face of this perversion of sound? I also cast my web about the commentators and media 'personalities' in whichever country I exist and try to get them to realise how awful the American bastardisation of sound has become.
I like the American sound in its context but the coca-colonisation of English and culture in an international context is baffling to me and I have studied this phenomenon to doctoral dissertation level.

[veiledsentiments]

Seems a huge waste of your time... your opinion doesn't matter one iota to the few hundred million who speak it.

Better to work on something easier to fix like world peace or hunger...

VS
(PS: I've never noticed Carlos pronounced Carloz.... unless followed by a word or name starting with a 's' which sets off a phonological effect. and I have studied Spanish and speak it better than Arabic... so I'll have to listen and see. Not that it is a commonly heard name.)

[temujinsky]

Some of us are perspicacious and some of us are not. The ant does not feel attraction to the elephant. This is the main reason Americans are as they are. Some aunties live on board boards while the rest of us live our lives.