Job Discussion Forums

[teacherdude]

[teacherdude]

I don't take pot shots but rather tell it like it is. A few months ago, I mentioned that the teachers had got a raise of about 50%. Someone claiming to work for ET, immediately came on the Forum and chastised me, citing that he had spoken with the Head Office and it was untrue. Well, a few days later, he had to pull his foot out of his mouth and admit that it was.

I get the my info directly from ET teachers, if it's untrue I'll be happy to admit so.

If you are surprised that ET staff don't know what's happening at their school, you are truly new to this Forum.

Re: the teachers who had to leave Taks 2. Some were told only after the move was done. That's right, they showed up and just found ppl moving stuff out of the building. (I didn't mention this point previously, because it's not my intention to write a book. However, I'm just driving home the point about the staff being clueless about what's happening sometimes)

TD[/quote]

Well Well, I just checked on that previous post about the price rates and it looks like the teacher who had to pull his foot out of his mouth was big 3bc. The one who is refuting what I said on this present thread.

Big3, I think by now you would be tired of being at ET and so clueless. Here's an idea forget what the Head Office has told you. This is the second time that they have embarrassed you in public.

Check with TEACHERS. That's where I get my info and I've been pretty right so far

Dude

[flutterbayou]

TD,

Would you go back to your last post and give it an edit, so that it doesn't look like I made your statement?

The opening states "Flutterbayou said. . . ." and then it picks up on your post. I don't mind reading what you have to say but I don't want your messages being misconstrued as mine, particularly because of the angry tone.

Might I ask fairly whether you work for ET? From the way you word things and say that you get your information from teachers there, it would appear that you are not an employee.

This would explain why you do not make direct contact with the people you criticize. And if you do not work for the school, why get so involved with the rumor mill?

Did you have a bad round with them, for instance....

I go so far to say this because you mentioned that information is good for teachers going there to work and that they have a right to information.
These threads are fun but are often off target. Let's take the forums on visa problems in China, Vietnam, the Middle East, in general, and the how to get the Apostille in Mexico. Conjecture and rumor pile up, so how do posts thinly lined with transparent facts actually help newcomers at all?

They don't; they only confuse people who can't figure out where to get to the bottom of things.

To all newbies (and of which I am not), stick to the Stickies at the headers for real info and if you want direct information from the school where you intend to work, then ask your employer for a teacher contact by email.

[big3bc]

Well put, Flutterbayou!
However, I wouldn't waste my time either disputing or justifying TD's comments. You are just condescending to his level. For some reason, his sole purpose in life is to criticize English Time here at Dave's. Perhaps, it quiets the demons in his obviously tortured soul.

[flutterbayou]

Well, the best way to be helpful to newbies wanting to find a decent employer is to steer them away from attack posts.

I don't know whether TD is correct or not about recent moves from one building to another, for instance, but it seems there could be loads of reasons for consolidating offices, none of which would necessarily have to do with anyone's ineptness.

I have written today only because when posters start arguing and attacking, they get carried away and forget to be helpful to readers in need of specific information.

So, if you apply for a job in Turkey, newbies, ask how well things are going at the school during your telephone interview. You might want to ask if testing resources are being used properly and whether you will have ample and supportive supervision at the workplace. You may want to ask how many hours per week you can count on, and whether you will have time off for rest.

If the response is "we're working on it," then push for stronger and more specific answers.

The hourly wage is only good enough if you can work X number of hours that you want. If you work too much, the quality of your work will suffer. If you don't get enough hours, then the hourly wage doesn't add up to the big bucks most people hope to earn.

The problem is that young teachers (and old) do not interview their prospective employers very well. They forget to ask questions like, "What is the management style like at each branch?" "Are the classrooms properly ventilated and with good air conditioning in the summer?" "Can you guarantee at which branch I will work before I show up, and what if I do not want to commute for nearly an hour each day?"

"What recourse will I have when my head teacher uses threatening language to me to get me to come to work when I am sick?"

"Are teachers complaining at this school about their requests for more support and better teaching resources?"

"Do you have video and audio support up and running?"

"Are the computer labs supplied with western keyboards, a requirement for TOEFL learners?"

"Does your organization offer professional development programs to you that are paid, or do you have to volunteer your own time to go to meetings, unpaid?"

"Are teachers denied time to go to church, although Muslims males may take off Friday afternoons for worship?"

"Are activities planned on holidays so that teachers do not actually get the day off?"

Bottom line from me is that the best way to obtain information about a school is to make a good shopping list of questions to ask during the telephone interview. If your interviewer starts stammering with the usual reply of "... you know, you know, you know..." without providing concrete answers, then you should scrutinize your decision-making process.

I would also suggest that if your telephone interviewer is doing most of the talking, then he or she is not very interested in getting to know you, and if the only conversation they come up with is "what is your greatest strength and weakness?" then you should be able to come to some intelligent conclusions about the level of interaction you may come to expect on a daily basis.

If you do not get clear answers that are supported in writing, then you know something's fishy. BUT, this goes for any job with any organization and not just the one being discussed today.

Job seekers take note: you are shoppers! Caveat Emptor.

Well-intended people with strong educations usually do not work at language schools. However, young people who need a good jump start in life sometimes do, and need constructive support from more experienced people on this Forum.

Let's try to be helpful, people.

My dear TD, and you thought I was a newbie.

[teacherdude]

Flutterbayou,

I have edited as you requested.

Quite frankly I don't agree with you at all. As an experienced person you should know that getting references from ppl working at the school only helps part of the time.

Both my colleagues and I have experienced this, if you haven't. Yes, I did work at ET at one time.

There are many posts about ET and other schools here. Better advice would have been to take complaints with a grain of salt and look for a common thread in posts; in addition to what flutterbayou suggested in his/her previous post.

Do you seriously expect a school to tell you that we publish our own books and we get numerous complaints about them. The teachers have begged us to change the books but we won't. Do you think they are going to tell a prospective teacher that failing students are usually passed and therefore you may have students in the wrong level and your job might be more tedious.

ET is like any course school here in Ist. There is good and bad. Who are you to suggest that ppl should not tell of the unprofessional conduct of management. I understand there are some teachers with a chip on their shoulder. Well, it's up to the reader to make a proper comparison. It's what I have done all my professional life.

I went into ET eyes wide open, due to complaints about them. The complaints were correct. My plan was to get my experience, money and leave in due course. However, at some point with different management, they improved. I stayed on. When management changed and things got worse - like not honouring cotracts. I decided to leave. However, I got great teaching experience there.

I thank those posters about ET (albeit they were mighty bitter people). It meant I was not in shock regarding the horrible way people were treated. ET has since improved their bad habbits (still a lot of room for improvement) due to teachers constantly leaving.

Some branches are better than other, so by all means speak to teachers and feel free to get some advice here.

Taksim 1 won't tell you that there is no grammar teacher to augment your classes because they are paid crap and usually picked right out of University. Thus, the average grammar teacher there barely last six months.

Sorry flatterbayou I dont' live in your naive world. I will show both sides of the coin.

Big3bc, how many times does the management have to embarass you on this forum before you see the light. That's twice they've made you look foolish here. Feel free to go for three. No, I am not 'descending' to any level. If you are misinformed by management and come here to exhibit your ignorance, whose fault is that?

Finally, here are a few good points for ET, just to make you guys happy

They pay on time.
They honour their contract regarding bonuses.
They gave raises in March and now their teachers are amongst the highest paid in the city.
They hire ppl with on line dilplomas. Great way to get good money, despite a lack of experience.
If you've got a nice personality and the students like you, you can get a lot of work. Even if you do very little teaching, once there are no complaints coming from your class, management will be happy.

TD

[flutterbayou]

TD, certainly you cannot suggest I am naive only because I try not to be rude. Rude is easy; thoughtful is helpful. I suggest that part of the problem for teachers is their lack of preparation for the initial telephone interview. Don't be flattered by obtaining a job offer - interview the school.

When an interviewee asks these questions and MORE, they will hear hesitations, excuses, canned responses about moving towards improvements and memorized patterns, all of which they should listen for. They should also listen to their interviewer's speech patterns for obvious lies and lousy grammar. How can an interviewer insist on an applicant's ability to teach grammar when the interviewer can't use it?

Another example is the fact that when an applicant asks for a teacher to write and no one responds . . . well, don't you think that applicants need to listen to the whispers?

Without criticising, I lean towards thinking that people are more likely to think through an employment process without paying much attention to negative reports.

At the same time, these negative reports are useful, because job applicants can use these threads to ask pertinent questions. It' a matter of balance.

Be nice but not stupid.

[big3bc]

If the management chooses to mislead me, as long as it doesn't affect my job, I could care less. I have been teaching and writing in Turkey for more than 10 years now. I have never dealt with any type of university, language school or high school administration here in which I wasn't hoodwinked in some manner whether it be with the contract, housing etc.
It appears that you are in touch with teachers from other schools. Why not post their gripes as well? It's obvious that you have an agenda.
ET surely has its problems. It has become "too big for its britches." The General Manager is concerned with the education being offered by its schools, as well as other related problems. Nevertheless, if I have learned anything in this country, education is a business. Money is top priority, with educational standards a distant second.

[flutterbayou]

The agenda is fair: interview your prospective employer before signing the dotted line.

I do not support attacks, but I point out areas in which I feel are pertinent for people looking for a job.

I would not support any school that works hard to hide its issues, and my previous post about the things to ask at an interview should be applied in any country and on any level of employment.

And now I say good night, Gracie