Job Discussion Forums

[redsoxfan]

Once you've got a KP, you won't have any problems, I'm not worried about that.

I'm interested in specific information regarding reciprocal agreements between the US and Poland which allow Americans to register themselves as subcontractors/freelancers. As you can see by the stuff I've posted today, I cannot find one shred of evidence that specifically says Americans can do this. It all seems to say the opposite. Now, you and your friend are the only indications that this is possible. Do you have any idea what this reciprocal agreement is called, how I can access a copy of it? Anyway, how did you find out about registering yourself like this? Did a lawyer help you? Surely you couldn't have merely stumbled upon this, what seems to be an obscure loophole.

[Harry from NWE]

Why not contact a Polish consulate in the USA and ask them if Poles can be self-employed in the USA?

If the worst comes to the worst, you could always set yourself up as the Polish branch office of yourself as a sole proprietor in the USA.

[dynow]

basically, many schools nowadays do not want to hire foreign teachers on work contracts/permits. it costs them more money.

when I originally interviewed for the job in the US via Skype, the DOS had told me about having "my own business". it sounded a bit sketchy, but I said what the hell, and flew out. after I had arrived, the DOS walked me through the beginning of it, I had to finish it up with a few Polish natives/friends. unfortunately the DOS was unprepared and ill informed, which resulted in a very rough first 6 months in Poland getting it all together, but it's done. It would have been done much faster but I couldn't get Zameldowania from my landlord, and had to find other means.

[TwinCentre]

[redsoxfan]

Well, I've spent the last couple days trying to get some info from the Polish embassy in DC and the American embassy in Warsaw. Both, of course, were unable to answer my relatively simple question. The woman in DC says she's making some phone calls, we'll see. She was nice. Basically, they both kept passing the buck and directing me somewhere else. Contacted the Polish govt. organization which has been charged with dispensing business advice--of course I was put on hold for half a hour without speaking to anyone so I hung up. I'm sure they would just read what's on the web anyway. (I've never met a single Polish professional who has been able to reliably help me in anything, despite paying several. We had to fire our lawyer and three different accountants on the basis of gross negligence). The Americans sent me a list of English-speaking lawyers with English-sounding surnames which I would gladly avail myself of weren't it for the fact that I live three hours north of Iran.

[Kootvela]

There should be some tax inspection office where you can go for a free consultation. It might be they would be sending you from one desk to another as well but this is the way it works. For example, when I wanted to start up my business, I had to go to three different offices (tax, healthcare and social security) and ask my questions there respectively because tax inspection can consult only about taxes on income but not on taxes on healthcare, etc. It's been tought but worth every minute in the final result. So, keep the faith!

[redsoxfan]

Sure, if I lived in Poland instead of Dystopia that would be no problem. I'd get railroaded around the city, receiving incorrect information. I spent several months in Poznan going around to seemingly every govt office bearing the question, "How do two Americans start a business in Poznan?" They looked at me like a dog who'd just been shown a card trick. Finally contacted a lawyer who charged us too much, made a ton of mistakes, cost us thousands, and got fired (but not before he haphazardly got the job done).

To clarify: I'm far from a rookie at this, and I probably know more about Polish employment law for foreigners than most Polish lawyers. However, it's often a case of 'the-more-you-know-the-less-you-know'. I can say with relative certainty that no one at these offices knows more than I do about this. They will start from scratch and discover exactly the same document which has been reprinted all over the web, including on the website of a government-run consulting office. I can recite the thing by heart at this point, and it seems to say that the option which Dynow and his pal took advantage of is NOT available to Americans. Problem is, they have both done precisely the opposite--in the case of Dynow, twice. Dynow seems to be right, but I cannot find any information about these magical reciprocal agreements.

Also, my concern is that unless I know exactly why I am legally allowed to do this, the Polish bureaucrats will insist that I am not, even if I am. This is one primary reason why I am in search of this information. I may well need to convince the Poles of their own laws.

By the way, I don't actually expect that any of you will be able to help me on this. But I think this thread is very useful and it is a work in progress.

NB: I've changed my profile to reflect my actual location, sorry for any confusion.

[Harry from NWE]

[redsoxfan]

Hmmm...interesting. Somehow I suspect I need something more concrete. That line of reasoning will have her reaching for a plate of pierogis before you can say pierogis.

I'm certain that there is no law explicitly forbidding Poles from starting a sole proprietorship in the US, IF they have a prior right to reside and work there. But surely Poles are not allowed to simply come the US, open a biz and get a green card, which is exactly what I intend on doing in Poland. Article 13 (posted above) allows non-European Economic Area citizens the same entrepreneurial rights as Poles IF they have (I believe) a Karta (Stalego?) Pobytu (long term residence card), refugee status, etc. It makes no explicit mention whatsoever of foreigners without this status who can nevertheless domicile a business simply because of agreements on reciprocity.

[dynow]

with everything being said RSF......what are you going to do? coming to Poland in spite of all this mess?

i wish there was a way I could give you some more confidence in making your decision.

aaahhhhh.........Poland.

[redsoxfan]

Actually, dynow, you could ask your DOS what she knows about this. You mentioned that she was ill-informed, but she obviously knows something that no one else seems to. I mean, it worked so she must have some trick up her sleeve.

I'll be in Poland in three weeks for a couple M.Ed. courses anyway, so it's worth a go. I'm just anticipating possible problems, as well as trying to discern if I ought to be applying for work elsewhere.

If you got the scoop from your DOS, I would of course owe you not one but two beers. And maybe one of those 9000 zl girls if biffinbridge will vouch for her services.

[sparks]

To sum it up IMHO, I think that if you walk into the urzad gmina with a passport, NIP, PESEL and Zameldowania you should be able to do it. Warsaw Srodmiescie has a special counter where the lines aren't long to fill out one paper stating that you want to open a business. After this you get your decyzja with the Regon number and can do the rest. I really don't think talking to the person behind the counter about reciprocal agreements will get you anywhere.

[dynow]

RSF,

I can absolutely appreciate your concern, but honestly, there is no trick. When the American that I work with did his paperwork for a KB, he went with a veteran teacher from my school who simply got some guidance from our DOS.

When I renewed my KB just a few months ago, my girlfriend did it all on her own for me. She made the calls, took me to the offices, and it was done. The only hang up I had was renewing my KB while having to transfer my Zameldowania to another city simultaneously, which was eventually sorted out.

Sparks is right on with this. You get a PESOL, NIP, REGON #, and the every so important Zameldowania, and you should have no problem applying for the KB. (Any chance your mother or father, possibly a grandparent has a Polish passport? If so, it would lengthen the validity of your KB each term. I believe 2 years instead of 1.)

[redsoxfan]

Sparks, you did this is Warsaw? Good to know. Incidentally, as my girlfriend has just reminded me, we tried to do all this in Poznan 3 years ago to no avail. Didn't do much to alleviate my skepticism.

If I had a parent with a Polish passport I would have a Polish passport as well so I wouldn't be in this mess. My four great-grandparents on my mom's side were from Poland and I'm told that if two GG had Polish passports I can apply for one, but that's a topic for another heart attack. (I'm &#^#* half-Polish, I speak the language decently, in a few months I'll have an M.Ed. and full cert (K-12) in ESL in the States...perhaps you can understand why I'm none too happy about being ramrodded through this nonsense once again just to hack out a living teaching in language schools. Keeping the options open at this point).

Beer.

[redsoxfan]

Ok, here it is: I have just received this email which shows definitively that Americans (dunno about my other non-EU comrades) can do exactly what Dynow has done, and register themselves as a business in Poland, get a karta pobytu and work legally. Indefinitely I'd suppose.
----------------------------------------------------------

The agreement that allows you to register in the Business Activity Register and conduct business in Poland is %u201CTreaty between the Republic of Poland and the United States of America concerning business and economic relations%u201D which came into effect in 1994. Full text of the treaty can be found on the website:

http://www.zbiordokumentow.pl/1994/3/6.html

If, after getting acquainted with the treaty, you still had some doubts, I would suggest to contact Mr. Krzysztof Dabrowski in the Polish Ministry of Economy (Department of the International Bilateral Relations, tel.: 011 48 693 52 6 who is an expert in the bilateral treaties of this kind.

I hope you will find above information useful. If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Sincerely,

Magdalena Dybek

Second Secretary

Embassy of the Republic of Poland

Trade & Investment Section

1503 21st Street, NW

Washington DC 20036

tel. (202) 467-6690 ext. 246

fax (202) 833-8343

e-mail: [email protected]

www.wehusa.gov.pl