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| Are some topics too controversial? |
| Yes. |
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47% |
[ 10 ] |
| Yes in some cases. |
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28% |
[ 6 ] |
| Depends on how it is handled. |
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23% |
[ 5 ] |
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| Total Votes : 21 |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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 Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Of course, all kinds of topics should be able to be talked about. Some people will be uncomfortable talking about anything, depends on the people in the class/group, etc.. |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I am almost finished all of my classes here in CHina. All of my oral english classes had to debate this year for their final. Groups of 3-5. I was very pleased on the debates. They worked hard, and all so far have performed up to what their english ability allows for. One of the key points I made this time is they must actually respond to what the other side said, using a piece of what the other side said and specifically disagreeing or agreeing or partly agreeing. grammar, vocabulay excellent. No mass copying from a book (for the most part.)
And the same old tired topics I have heard from year one.
Is it beter to live in the city or country.
Diploma or ability
Should students have part time jobs
Seriously, they did good. Maybe partly because I know what they need coaching in more, but it was pretty good, good, relevant points made. As a teacher of English, SUCCESS
As one desiring for their minds to truly learn to look at important issues from different perspectives? Well, as the say here in China, Rome wasn't built in a day |
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rusmeister
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 867
Location: Russia
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| gaijinalways wrote: |
| Of course, all kinds of topics should be able to be talked about. Some people will be uncomfortable talking about anything, depends on the people in the class/group, etc.. |
The exception to this that I would proffer is abominations. I would again refer, only to make this point, to the example of pedophelia. In general, there are some things that 'the less said, the better', in the sense that either exciting interest or approving of aspects of such things may contribute to their spread.
I would also suggest, as someone who believes in both absolutes and relatives, that there may be good reasons why people feel uncomfortable speaking about something, that for the reasons I expressed imperfectly above, discomfort about a topic may be an appropriate reaction/defense against the spread of an evil. Again, the idea that anything ought to be discussed is basically a pluralist one that rejects the idea that there may be inherent evil/wrong in a concept. |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| I would also suggest, as someone who believes in both absolutes and relatives, |
Funny, me too. I think that most people have both some absolutes and some relatives in their belief systems. (Though some or perhaps most may not be aware of this fact.)
One of the tricks, as a teacher, to preparing a good debate class is doing your homework to ensure that the topics proposed for debate are more likely to be relatives than absolutes to the majority of your students. Otherwise, what follows in unlikely to be a debate.
And don't criticise your students overmuch for being indoctrinated or dogmatic. We all have areas we can and will debate, and areas in which our beliefs are absolute.
Best,
Justin |
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MO39
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1970
Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Justin Trullinger wrote: |
And don't criticise your students overmuch for being indoctrinated or dogmatic. We all have areas we can and will debate, and areas in which our beliefs are absolute.
Best,
Justin |
I agree that we all have some beliefs that we feel are not open to debate, but it would be a little freaky (to me, at least) to have a class of students who all seem to share the same non-debateable subjects. |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:15 am Post subject: |
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| Good points |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I agree that we all have some beliefs that we feel are not open to debate, but it would be a little freaky (to me, at least) to have a class of students who all seem to share the same non-debateable subjects. |
You notice I said topics, I didn't say anything about beliefs. For example, in a broadcast media class I taught a few year ago, we talked about the suicide manual that was written in Japan as well as the online groups that plan to commit suicide together in Japan.
Taboo subject? Maybe for some? Did I challenge any beliefs? None, except the one about talking about a subject that might make some people uncomfortable. |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I agree that we all have some beliefs that we feel are not open to debate, but it would be a little freaky (to me, at least) to have a class of students who all seem to share the same non-debateable subjects. |
Yet this will come up if you're teaching abroad. Because students who come from a common culture, common religious background, common cultural background, common history...the fact that sometimes they'll wind up with common "no debate" areas seems logical to me.
Here in Ecuador, for example, there would be little point in debating abortion- Catholic history, Catholocism today, a culture that values the family above all else, a shared commitment to welcome children to the family (regardless of planned status or even legitimacy), and an extended family structure that seems to fill the entire country, all conspire to create a lot of people who cannot conceive of any possible justification for abortion.
Just an example. Would you do much better in the US trying to stage a debate about forms of government that might be better than "democracy?"
Best,
Justin |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:03 am Post subject: |
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Actually, that would probably be a good discussion with liberals and people not favoring big government. Of course, sometimes values may overshadow an issue, but debate is often the examination of the reasons why someone thinks that.
| Quote: |
| Here in Ecuador, for example, there would be little point in debating abortion- Catholic history, Catholocism today, a culture that values the family above all else, a shared commitment to welcome children to the family (regardless of planned status or even legitimacy), and an extended family structure that seems to fill the entire country, all conspire to create a lot of people who cannot conceive of any possible justification for abortion. |
You could try offering some possible examples; i.e. rape victim, etc.
Funny you should bring up the example of religious belief 'interfering' with the ability to discuss or debate. In Japan that is not a major problem usually as people here are often simultaneously irreligious and multi-religious at the same time.
One of the most interesting people I met in Japan is a Japanese Catholic priest. I have had many interesting discussions with him about theology and its tenants. He had no qualms about tackling difficult issues while maintaining and supporting his own positions. |
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rusmeister
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 867
Location: Russia
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| gaijinalways wrote: |
Actually, that would probably be a good discussion with liberals and people not favoring big government. Of course, sometimes values may overshadow an issue, but debate is often the examination of the reasons why someone thinks that.
| Quote: |
| Here in Ecuador, for example, there would be little point in debating abortion- Catholic history, Catholocism today, a culture that values the family above all else, a shared commitment to welcome children to the family (regardless of planned status or even legitimacy), and an extended family structure that seems to fill the entire country, all conspire to create a lot of people who cannot conceive of any possible justification for abortion. |
You could try offering some possible examples; i.e. rape victim, etc.
Funny you should bring up the example of religious belief 'interfering' with the ability to discuss or debate. In Japan that is not a major problem usually as people here are often simultaneously irreligious and multi-religious at the same time.
One of the most interesting people I met in Japan is a Japanese Catholic priest. I have had many interesting discussions with him about theology and its tenants. He had no qualms about tackling difficult issues while maintaining and supporting his own positions. |
That's not surprising.
I'm Orthodox, but the faiths (Orthodox Christianity and Roman Catholicism - I'd almost prefer to say eastern Christianity and western Christianity) are very close to each other in most of the important things - they both have a continuous Tradition lasting 2,000 years, something other Christian faiths can't really claim. One thing I think I can risk saying to explain Catholics is that it is not something determined by the individual, but worked out over centuries, so the level of thought and wisdom from experience poured into their responses is much higher than that one person can generally attain in their lifetime. So things like your example of rape wouldn't fly (except perhaps with someone who didn't know the teachings of his own Church) because the philosophy behind the meaning of life for such Christians explains why any killing (destruction of life or other euphemism) is wrong, so "abortion" (euphemism!) is just compounding one evil on top of another evil. It is indeed one of the hardest scenarios that would call upon people who suffer such an evil to really be Christ-like in such a situation, and I wouldn't want to be that woman (or her husband), but if it came down to it, the bottom line is that the question of killing/ending the life of a baby, even in formation, is an absolute, and there is nothing relative about it. Same thing goes for "euthanasia". These fall under concepts of bioethics. There's an interesting book that goes into these issues in depth - it's written by an Orthodox author, but I think Catholics would pretty much agree with all of it:
http://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Gift-Life-Christianity-Bioethics/dp/0881411833
Of course, Justin, you would find more interesting debate among Catholics around questions such as justifiable war, killing in defense of self or others and so on. You can find shades of grey in such areas!
The word "taboo" is a word that for westerners brings up an emotional reaction that usually implies that the issue is unreasonably forbidden. The idea that there may be serious reason and philosophy that take human nature into account in taking an absolute stand on an issue (essentially refusing to debate it on the basis of such a faith or philosophy) is one that many here may find surprising. |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| I gave the priest as an example, but I have also met some missionaries who tended to lecture rather than discuss, something I prefer to avoid (the monologues, that is, either giving or receiving). In my role as a lecturer, I do it sometimes, but generally they are mini-lectures. |
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