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canucktechie
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 343
Location: Moscow
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 Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:57 am Post subject: |
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| rusmeister wrote: |
| One thing backpackers don't care about is that they have an impact on the market, just as migrant workers in the US bring salaries down to minimum wage and below for something that would otherwise be reasonably well-paid. |
Er, just a minute here. Migrant workers in the US are working illegally and are bringing down wages for US citizens.
YOU are just another foreigner working in Russia, and you have no business complaining about any other foreigner working in Russia. These people are admitted legally by the Russian government for the express purpose of teaching English.
Russian citizens who teach English could claim that YOU are bring down wages for THEM. It's their country, not yours. They are the ones who have the right to complain, and interestingly I've never heard a Russian EFL teacher complain about "backpackers".
And no I don't work for a McSchool. |
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BELS
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 402
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| canucktechie wrote: |
| rusmeister wrote: |
| One thing backpackers don't care about is that they have an impact on the market, just as migrant workers in the US bring salaries down to minimum wage and below for something that would otherwise be reasonably well-paid. |
Er, just a minute here. Migrant workers in the US are working illegally and are bringing down wages for US citizens.
YOU are just another foreigner working in Russia, and you have no business complaining about any other foreigner working in Russia. These people are admitted legally by the Russian government for the express purpose of teaching English.
Russian citizens who teach English could claim that YOU are bring down wages for THEM. It's their country, not yours. They are the ones who have the right to complain, and interestingly I've never heard a Russian EFL teacher complain about "backpackers".
And no I don't work for a McSchool. |
Just to continue the windup  From personal experience I have heard more of good Russian English teachers complaining that they cannot command the high fees of let's say 2000 rouble per academic hour, of which the native English teacher charges.
So we longterm visiters or residents as private teachers don't bring the prices down, we put them up. And we have to, because we are the ones who experience the rocketing inflation rate here. |
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rusmeister
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 867
Location: Russia
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| canucktechie wrote: |
| rusmeister wrote: |
| One thing backpackers don't care about is that they have an impact on the market, just as migrant workers in the US bring salaries down to minimum wage and below for something that would otherwise be reasonably well-paid. |
Er, just a minute here. Migrant workers in the US are working illegally and are bringing down wages for US citizens.
YOU are just another foreigner working in Russia, and you have no business complaining about any other foreigner working in Russia. These people are admitted legally by the Russian government for the express purpose of teaching English.
Russian citizens who teach English could claim that YOU are bring down wages for THEM. It's their country, not yours. They are the ones who have the right to complain, and interestingly I've never heard a Russian EFL teacher complain about "backpackers".
And no I don't work for a McSchool. |
Here I have to echo BELS. (Usually, I've come down on your side, CT.)
Actually I am living and working here legally. Also, traditionally, backpackers have NOT been admitted to this country to expressly teach English. They've (up until now) come on multi-entry business visas without a right to work. It's not that easy to legally work here and most organizations get fig leaves to cover themselves without going completely legal.
Since I do live here and have legal work, I find your statement that I have no business complaining about backpackers a little odd. They are literally one-shot migrant workers, most of whom are just messing around spending a year or two until they find 'themselves' or the kind of job and place they really want to be. (Granted that a few do become career pros. But my point is that most don't.)
It is people like me and BELS that do tend to keep salaries up, not down. But when there are huge cadres of backpackers, it's not a balanced market. If it was just foreign pros and Russian teachers, Russian teacher wages would be up, too. On the one hand, they might resent our just being on their territory (competition) but on the other hand, there are too few pros. We can't teach everybody and cost too much for some, but it would still pull what the Russian teachers could ask up. It is backpackers who provide a market stimulus to keep down pay for Russian teachers as well.
Like I said, I'm set, and out in the boonies, there's just no organization that can support backpackers, so I have no competition. If they want to marry a Russian, get the "vid" and live here, and go career they can do it, too. Fortunately, that's much easier said than done.
Anyway, hope I haven't said anything that is actually offensive to you. |
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ecocks
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 899
Location: Gdansk, Poland
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:14 am Post subject: |
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At the same time, the basic laws of supply and demand will assert themselves despite your emotions or logic.
There are really only two ways to restrict the backpackers' impact on the TEFL market.
1. Rigid government controls and enforcement on visas and work permits issued for teaching.
OR
2. Customer demand for quality instruction by professional teachers.
Personally, my bet is on #1 being more successful than #2. |
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BELS
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 402
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:57 am Post subject: |
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I'm afraid number one has already happened. If a prospective employee chooses accidently to be employed by an illegal employer, they may well discover that that they will have to leave within 90 days, and not be able to return for another 90 days.
They also run the risk of being prosecuted along with their illegal employer. Of course this risk has always been there, but the authorities are much more vigilent now.
Hence the extinction of charging $25 an academic hour for teaching all over Moscow privately. |
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rusmeister
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 867
Location: Russia
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| ecocks wrote: |
At the same time, the basic laws of supply and demand will assert themselves despite your emotions or logic.
There are really only two ways to restrict the backpackers' impact on the TEFL market.
1. Rigid government controls and enforcement on visas and work permits issued for teaching.
OR
2. Customer demand for quality instruction by professional teachers.
Personally, my bet is on #1 being more successful than #2. |
I quite agree. |
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BELS
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 402
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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I agree also, and my predictions are that visa regulations will get stiffer before this year ends.
Why? Because Russia's latest President said he wants to make it easier for all expat business men and workers. And the last time a president announced this, life was made more hell for all of us applying for visas, especially Americans.
Last edited by BELS on Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm curious whether Russia will follow the European visa regs - which are much tighter in 2008 than they were before... |
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BELS
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 402
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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Are you sure about that?? Do you mean the schengen agreement??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement
Although as all expats know by now Britain, Denmark, and Southern Ireland refused to sign such an agreement. |
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sukoma
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 16
Location: Longmont, CO
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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Russia has its own agenda when it comes to immigrant workers.
Concerning the EU, they have to give preference to the holders of EU nation passports (I tried transferring with my job to the Netherlands and no dice). Russia isn't part of that association of countries and doesn't seem that interested in joining up. Maybe that's good for Americans and Canadiens because it's getting harder to find jobs in the former communist satellites (Poland, Czech Rep, Latvia, etc...), but at least we're still welcome to apply in Russia and Ukraine...for what it's worth. |
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BELS
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 402
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Russia may well not be in the EU yet, but they do benefit from the Schengen agreement. |
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revmira
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:15 pm Post subject: postive experiences |
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When I lived in Russia 2 years ago (not in Moscow) I worked legally through a school. The school was alright even though the director was crazy. I was given a lot more rights and money than the Russian English teachers. The best part about it was the staff of the school and the students- who became my friends. I added to my income significantly by taking on private lessons, people I met, friends of friends- it was pretty easy to find these lessons. You just need one Russian friend who likes to talk a lot and hook other people up. I was technically not supposed to have private lesoons -but no one really cared. I did not have to work too much, I had a free apartment, and I supported myself.
I think if you are a good teacher and have a positive attitude, you will be in high demand. If the wage for the school you are working at is low, you can set a high price for your private lessons.
-good luck |
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rusmeister
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 867
Location: Russia
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:42 am Post subject: Re: postive experiences |
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| revmira wrote: |
When I lived in Russia 2 years ago (not in Moscow) I worked legally through a school. The school was alright even though the director was crazy. I was given a lot more rights and money than the Russian English teachers. The best part about it was the staff of the school and the students- who became my friends. I added to my income significantly by taking on private lessons, people I met, friends of friends- it was pretty easy to find these lessons. You just need one Russian friend who likes to talk a lot and hook other people up. I was technically not supposed to have private lesoons -but no one really cared. I did not have to work too much, I had a free apartment, and I supported myself.
I think if you are a good teacher and have a positive attitude, you will be in high demand. If the wage for the school you are working at is low, you can set a high price for your private lessons.
-good luck |
Revmira, having been here 2 years ago does not qualify you to speak to the current situation. Things have changed. The economic bubble you experienced has burst, Russians are losing jobs or having pay reduced/withheld left and right, and far fewer people can afford private lessons, especially if you set high prices (you'd find yourself sitting by the phone hoping it will ring, if you have a phone at all) - also the existing teachers have become more desperate and competitive. See other recent threads on Russia to confirm this. |
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BELS
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 402
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:23 am Post subject: Re: postive experiences |
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| rusmeister wrote: |
| revmira wrote: |
When I lived in Russia 2 years ago (not in Moscow) I worked legally through a school. The school was alright even though the director was crazy. I was given a lot more rights and money than the Russian English teachers. The best part about it was the staff of the school and the students- who became my friends. I added to my income significantly by taking on private lessons, people I met, friends of friends- it was pretty easy to find these lessons. You just need one Russian friend who likes to talk a lot and hook other people up. I was technically not supposed to have private lesoons -but no one really cared. I did not have to work too much, I had a free apartment, and I supported myself.
I think if you are a good teacher and have a positive attitude, you will be in high demand. If the wage for the school you are working at is low, you can set a high price for your private lessons.
-good luck |
Revmira, having been here 2 years ago does not qualify you to speak to the current situation. Things have changed. The economic bubble you experienced has burst, Russians are losing jobs or having pay reduced/withheld left and right, and far fewer people can afford private lessons, especially if you set high prices (you'd find yourself sitting by the phone hoping it will ring, if you have a phone at all) - also the existing teachers have become more desperate and competitive. See other recent threads on Russia to confirm this. |
I have to agree with you, it is getting more difficult now. And it will be even more dificult in the Summer. All us settled expat can only hope that the number of EFL techers available in Russia decline, to allow us few to get what little business is available now. |
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coledavis
Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1838
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes Bels, I agree with you that the Russian authorities have been tightening up on visas etc. Hopefully this means that those schools which go through the hassle of getting a proper licence will only pick people who have done recognised courses (depends upon your view of backpackers of course). On the downside for new teachers, I suspect that the recession in Britain will lead to more graduates taking the CELTA and teaching abroad as just something better to do than sitting around on the dole at home. So competition amongst newcomers will probably increase. |
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