Job Discussion Forums

[Henry_Cowell]

jaksamania is evidently an ex-EF student.

[Madame J]

Would EF be a viable prospect if:

-you want to earn enough money simply to live, have a decent social life, travel on the occasional weekend (strictly a cheap hostel deal), and generally live like a student midway through term;

-you don't mind, no, you actively want to house share;

-you don't mind teaching with minimal resources?

I am genuinely considering EF in spite of all the criticism that gets heaped on them, because from what I've seen most people tend to slate them because they're used to slightly more exuberant lifestyles than I am. Is EF in fact generally okay as a starter job if you don't mind a low salary, or is it really likely that they'll end up making you work 12 hour shifts and dump you in some remote corner of the country you've no say in?

[guruengerish]

Madame J.

I know I've said all these things in the past, so you old hands can turn the page.

I worked at two EF schools, one in Jakarta, and one in Yogya. The Jakarta one paid quite fairly, had good audio visual resources but NO space at all for activities other than the sitting kind. They provided a nice house, the maid came twice a week, everything was paid for, so no real problems.

There were many books to choose from for devising activities, though the classrooms were somewhat cramped and the ceiling would fall in after heavy rains. All-in-all, not a bad posting and a decent pay increase for my second year.

Possibly I upset the owner in my 2nd year, as the rent on the house doubled and I had to pay the extra. The neighbours didn't believe the story either, and I left some weeks before the contract expired, which of course meant I had to pay out a 'fine'.

My next EF school was in Central Java; the pay was very low, no housing was provided and little help given in negotiating for one. Again, the rooms were 'standard EF' and activities where students needed to move around were nigh on impossible. Good resources, and teachers upgrading these all the time. Very dodgy management and teachers started an opposition school in the same city.

As EF franchises are usually local, you are not going to be posted to some far-flung outpost. It's also in their own interests to ensure that you have all the correct paper-work and visas.

The standard EF text books are nowhere near as professional as say, 'Headway' and their tape sets are also far from good. Once you start teaching older students and adults, you have a much wider range of books.

It's a good experience, and if you've never done teaching before, EF is somewhere to start. If you want quality, try The British Institute.

[Madame J]

Well, that's fair enough. The idea of not having room to practice fun activities with children, however, is a bit of a worry. I do actually have an interview with EF in a couple of weeks, so perhaps I should ask about classroom sizes then?

[laughing_magpie06]

Madame J, while I have been one EF's staunchest critics in the past I will recommend them if what you stated above is all you need. Don't get too excited about the travel though, even if you stay in hostels you need to get there first (standard buses as used by the locals are the cheapest option if travelling through Java). Also it costs money to see any landmarks and I don't think even for a budget traveller you would want to stay in the hostel eating sandwiches.

I worked for EF for 15 months (one school the full year's contract) and enjoyed the area I lived in if not the school itself. Positives are that I got a house in a nice suburb (and received the housing allowance), had a driver pick me up and drop me off everyday and had pretty cheap eating and drinking options around where I lived. Choose your spot carefully, that is one thing to consider, not only the school itself.

Good luck!

[missjo]

This is the first time I've posted on dave's and is in response to jaksamania's previous posting on "the newEF Karawaci", holidays responsible for the delay!

I'm happy to identify myself as the DoS at EF Karawaci and to clarify I'm a blue-eyed blonde (natural and have the kind of English accent which, in 45 years, has never been thought of as American. I think the gentleman he's referring to does speak with an American accent but doing so and claiming to BE American is quite a leap. I have found him to be an honourable man, a highly respected colleague and loved teacher.

As for the other teachers, we have 10 in all (7 US/UK/Aussie passports, 3 Indonesian) and so far 6 have indicated that they wish to stay for another year. I have 2 returning to their home countries at the end of their contracts after spending several years overseas, 1 returning to get married and the 4th has yet to decide which, given she's barely half way through this contract, seems fair enough to me. I would not claim to be the best DoS on the planet but none of the above raises any red flags for me regarding staff relations, however I'm willing to stand corrected.

Anonymous mud slinging is easy to do but where I come from we have a saying "speak as you find". With that in mind, we re-open for classes on the 5th of Jan and visitors are always welcome... even you jaksamania!

Wishing you all a Happy and Healthy New Year

Jo

[Tommybhoy]

They would tell you that...they probably don't want to hurt your feeling..maybe you're putting too much pressure on them to stay? It looks to me that most ex-teachers hated Swara Group...anyway all the evidence here points in that direction! Everyone can't be wrong!

[thetokenbrownone]

Teaching at EF really isn't that bad. Come on now! From what I read above, if you're looking for pretty minimal effort, a decent enough wage to travel and to live "like a student", then EF provides that. I've been living like that since I arrived here. I've managed to travel around Indonesia and make 2 international trips too...so I guess the pay can't be THAT terrible!

Obviously other considerations are important, and I do support the suggestion to check out the area and school group. The school I work for is in the West Jakarta region, it's new, the staff are fun and we all have a good time.

Saying that, I've also worked for some bad schools (in Madrid) so it is important to choose a neighbourhood that will suit your needs. Where I live is pretty westernised so I get all the amenities from home as well as a local "authentic" experience.

Don't be put off by negative posts about EF, a job is what you make it too. That's not me trying to sell EF but having worked for at least 4 other major language schools of the same ilk, I think it's ok.

[missjo]

Perhaps I should also have clarified the group situation as well. EF Karawaci is owned by two gentlemen, one of whom also owns EF Depok, and neither of whom have any association that I'm aware of with the previous franchise owner/s or group.

As for pressurising teachers to stay, I agree that could be a risk but I haven't asked anyone what their intentions are and all have come to me to let me know their current thoughts. I haven't noticed anyone being backwards at coming forwards! I admit I do possess an inner Dragon Lady but she's reserved for those who ride motorbikes on the pavement and people who try to steal my chips.

[Mr_Magoo]

[missjo]

Sorry Mr Magoo, the best I can do is free tea and biscuits; I finished the gin over Christmas

[laughing_magpie06]

[Dave Nesbit]

I thought I would write again because so far my attempts to have you explain your problem with me in a constructive manner on the boards has been met with an abject refusal, or, more likely, inability to do so.

Now, in March 2005, almost four years ago, you were unable to make it through your probationary period with me at EF West Jakarta. You were made fully aware where the problems lay as your probation continued and we attempted to help you improve in every way we could. Unfortunately, you couldn�t or wouldn�t.

When you left EF WJKT I personally helped you obtain your next job. Perhaps you are not aware of that, perhaps you are and choose to ignore it. When you then moved onto your third job, again I helped you to secure it. Once more, I don�t know if you are aware of this and I don�t know if you care.

In September 2006 you showed up on these boards calling me out by name and calling me �a snake� and have since gone on to describe me as �being out to screw everyone� �willing to sell my own mother� and now �a nasty piece of work� who �lied� and �backstabbed�.

Over the last two and a half years I, and others on these boards, have constantly challenged you to come forward with specific examples of what I was supposed to have done that so cruelly hurt your sensitivities, yet you have not done so. Instead you have preferred to hide behind the cloak of anonymity and continue to stamp your feet like a big girl spurned at her high school prom.

You are no longer here. You couldn�t cut it here or decided you didn�t like it here, or whatever, but you still can�t leave it alone, can you? You are forever on these boards having a moan at all things Indonesia and Indonesian and I wonder just why it is you can�t let go and get on with your life?

Now, you mention your friends at UPI. I know the guy you are talking about (he has recently started posting on these boards) and (apart from a minor spat with him via email when he left) I have and I had no problems with him. In fact, I have read a lot of the stuff he has written on here recently and thought �too true�. In particular this quote;

I did the right thing by them, turned up on time wore a tie, planned my lessons in advance and never worked with a hang over. 3 teachers got the flick during my first year, they brought it on themselves. So why do people like that p*ss and moan when they get fired ?

This guy is also back in his homeland but is posting on these boards in a much more balanced and mature way than you. Perhaps you should take his lead and also read his above quote and use it to provoke a little introspection.

Somehow I doubt you will.

[Mr_Magoo]

[jane jensen]

To whom actually gives a rats .... (The Laughing Magpie perhaps.....?)

EF Cibubur was already a joke when they employed u. That's y they didn't care about ur credentials. A white face already guaranteed u the position ! Remember how many teachers left just after u started ?

The West Jakarta EFs have changed hands. Meruya being the 1st - if it's not already obvious to others following this site, EF Meruya no longer exists under the previous regime. It's now owned by the Batam / Pamulang group and EF Meruya is now known as EF Pesanggrahan. Very poorly run also, but different owners nonetheless.

EF Karawaci is owned by the same owners as EF Depok n from what I've heard aren't a bad lot.

EF is EF, we all know that Andy. Get over it !