| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| What is your marital status? |
| Never married |
|
44% |
[ 12 ] |
| First (and hopefully only) marriage |
|
33% |
[ 9 ] |
| Second time around |
|
11% |
[ 3 ] |
| Third time lucky! |
|
3% |
[ 1 ] |
| Just call me Elizabeth Taylor |
|
7% |
[ 2 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 27 |
|
| Author |
Message |
naturegirl321

Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home
|
Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
As of yesterday my status is changingn too. In order to get Peruvian citizenship, I have to "unmarry", get a new maiden name, "un-unmarry" get a new married name.
The kicker? I've been told that this is perfectly logical by the people in immigration. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
MO39

Joined: 28 Jan 2004 Posts: 1970 Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana
|
Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
As of yesterday my status is changingn too. In order to get Peruvian citizenship, I have to "unmarry", get a new maiden name, "un-unmarry" get a new married name.
The kicker? I've been told that this is perfectly logical by the people in immigration. |
How do the bureaucratic ninnies in Peruvian Immigration propose that you get a new maiden name? Should you "divorce" your mother and father and be adopted by a new set of parents?  |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124
|
Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| How do the bureaucratic ninnies in Peruvian Immigration propose that you get a new maiden name? Should you "divorce" your mother and father and be adopted by a new set of parents? |
I suspect they are insisting that the maiden name include both parents' surnames,, as is the custom in Spanish speaking countries. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
naturegirl321

Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home
|
Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MO39 wrote: |
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
As of yesterday my status is changingn too. In order to get Peruvian citizenship, I have to "unmarry", get a new maiden name, "un-unmarry" get a new married name.
The kicker? I've been told that this is perfectly logical by the people in immigration. |
How do the bureaucratic ninnies in Peruvian Immigration propose that you get a new maiden name? Should you "divorce" your mother and father and be adopted by a new set of parents?  |
Who k;nows? All I know is it-s going to screw up all my documentation. I have to use my mother-s maiden name, which even she hasn-t used in 30 years. I-m goign to ask to talk to someone higher up
So now I-m C de H. They want me to be C Z, then C Z de H. Confused? me too |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
MO39

Joined: 28 Jan 2004 Posts: 1970 Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana
|
Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| As Stephen Jones has mentioned, it's the custom in Spanish-speaking countries to use both parents' surnames to form yours, especially in formal situations and for bureaucratic purposes. Here in Mexico I usually end up using both (when I told my mother that she was quite pleased!), though my FM3 only has my father's, no doubt because that's how my name appears on my passport. Anyway, I'm sorry that all of this is causing you such grief. It sounds like Peruviia red tape is even more of a hassle than it is here. Good luck! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
naturegirl321

Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home
|
Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MO39 wrote: |
| As Stephen Jones has mentioned, it's the custom in Spanish-speaking countries to use both parents' surnames to form yours, especially in formal situations and for bureaucratic purposes. Here in Mexico I usually end up using both (when I told my mother that she was quite pleased!), though my FM3 only has my father's, no doubt because that's how my name appears on my passport. Anyway, I'm sorry that all of this is causing you such grief. It sounds like Peruviia red tape is even more of a hassle than it is here. Good luck! |
I would do it, except for the American citizenship thing. I could just imagine giving birth as a Peruvian, bringing the birth cert to to embassy and telling me that the person on the birth cert and me are two different people because of the last names.
I got denied my mother's citizenship due to ONE letter being different in her first name. What's the embassy going to do with a whole other last name? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
MO39

Joined: 28 Jan 2004 Posts: 1970 Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana
|
Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
I would do it, except for the American citizenship thing. I could just imagine giving birth as a Peruvian, bringing the birth cert to to embassy and telling me that the person on the birth cert and me are two different people because of the last names.
I got denied my mother's citizenship due to ONE letter being different in her first name. What's the embassy going to do with a whole other last name? |
One would hope that personnel at the American embassy in Lima would have some knowledge of how surnames are formed in Peru and might understand why you have two of them on your future child's birth certificate and only one on your US passport, but I wouldn't hold my breath  |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
naturegirl321

Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home
|
Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
YOu'd think, but they don't. I went to change my name, got grilled on WHY I was getting a new passport when it was still good for 6 years. Duh, didn't they notice a changed my last name?
As of now, I have two last names, my dad's, then the "de" then my husband's. Both my Peruvian and US docs are the same. Peru now wants me to add another last name, my mom's |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124
|
Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
The Peruvians seem to me to be perfectly logical. They're not asking you to change your name, merely to use the name you've always had.
If it were an Arabic country they'd expect your grandfather's first name. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
naturegirl321

Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home
|
Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| What? I was born with one last name, they want to give me another. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124
|
Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| What? I was born with one last name, they want to give me another. |
You were no more born with one last name than you were born with a pair of knickers.
As far as most Spanish-speaking countries are concerned your last names are your father's surname followed by your mother's surname (which doesn't change on marriage, though 'de + husband's surname' can be added. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Justin Trullinger

Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 3110 Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
|
Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
You were no more born with one last name than you were born with a pair of knickers.
As far as most Spanish-speaking countries are concerned your last names are your father's surname followed by your mother's surname (which doesn't change on marriage, though 'de + husband's surname' can be added. |
I always enjoy your writing Stephen. Don't always agree, but always enjoy. I think you'll agree that none of us were born with names. We are named. And until those documents go to the courthouse, the registry, or wherever, we haven't legally got a name.
Customs are different. But frequently, a name is a legal characteristic of a person, used in legal documentation. And legally speaking, NG was born without a name, but her legal name became the one on her birth certificate. If she had only one surname there, and has used only that one throughout life, then that one, and that one alone, will have appeared on ALL her documents up to now. And the other one, which would have been her surname if she'd been born in Peru, isn't a part of her legal identity.
Most countries are open to accepting previous legal names of immigrants. The US, for example, doesn't ask Spanish speakers to drop a surname when they naturalize.
It's not really a question of "when in Rome," when you consider the potentially aggravating consequences of changing names in such a way that makes your documentation inconsistant.
I've been doing well in Ecuador these years with only one surname. My boss has done equally well for several decades.
There's no reason to require a change.
Best,
Justin |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Guy Courchesne

Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City
|
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
In Mexico (and most of Latin America), Stephen is correct in how surnames are processed legally and NG is correct in noting the bureaucracy in that many Latin American countries are so attuned to a paternal and maternal surname set up that it sometimes doesn't compute with governnment officials on doing it any other way. Sometimes it comes down to a simple software issue, where an application cannot be completed unless all fields are filled in.
I've also heard stories of Mexicans having gone to the US and having great difficulty with the bureaucracy there in processing their names. They most certainly do require than Latinos drop a surname when doing the paperwork. Ask a Latino there what his or her name is and you'll invariably get no more than 'Miguel Sanchez'.
My ex-wife (Mexican national) never took my last name, or even the 'de Courchesne' specifically for the difficulty in the documentation both here in Mexico and in Canada. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
MO39

Joined: 28 Jan 2004 Posts: 1970 Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana
|
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Guy Courchesne wrote: |
I've also heard stories of Mexicans having gone to the US and having great difficulty with the bureaucracy there in processing their names. They most certainly do require than Latinos drop a surname when doing the paperwork. Ask a Latino there what his or her name is and you'll invariably get no more than 'Miguel Sanchez'.
|
That could be why Puerto Ricans (who are also US citizens) customarily hyphenate their two surnames; for example, Mar�a Garc�a S�nchez would be Mar�a Garc�a-S�nchez. That way, both of her surnames are officially recognized by the government. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
naturegirl321

Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home
|
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
I go back to Immigrations on thursday and I-ll figure out things there. If push comes to shove, I just might have to change my name. Though I will fight it for what it-s worth.
I have two last names now, why can-t they just consider my husband-s last name my mother-s? It-s not neceesary to change names upon marriage, there are tons of married women who only have two last names.
One thing that I will say. Is that the US govt didn-t give me any problems. I am Sharon C de H on my US passpoert and SS Card, no quqestions asked.
here too, people just say their first name and father-s last name.
Guy, why is it hard in Mexico to do the "de"?
Actually Justin, I changed my name two years ago, a year after we got married, all docs, both in Peru in the US, make me Sharon C de H. SO, I DO have two last names, just like Peruvians, now they want me to have three Still I just don-t want any probs trying to sell our flat with a new name. As it is, I get grilled just presenting my foreign ID. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
|