Job Discussion Forums

[kungfucowboy83]

[vikuk]

During a 30 day month - that 2000 equals 67RMB/day!!!!!!! On that paltry sum - just basic living expenses would have to worked out on a day to day basis (especially if no free meals were being thrown into the deal) - and if one was suddenly presented with extra costs - a medical problem or an emergency such as stolen passport - would you be sweating it if you hadn't any extra funds and your employers weren't going to help you out!!!!!!!!
Having a little cash to buy yourself a treat or two - some clothes - do some travel - well that would take some saving!!!!!!

Only the naive would come over and expect to live in sense of security on such a low wage!!!!!! Remember the Chinese can live on this small money - but many will live together with their family to help share costs - but 2000/month is hardly a salary that would excite many of the locals today - and for those who live alone have to pay most of their own costs - 67RMB/day is basic survival level

[nickpellatt]

I have to say ... I have been quite suprised by the replies in this thread so far. Im fairly sure not many people have actually had a proper look at the website posted, and taken note of the type of person this program is mostly aimed at.

There have been numerous posts in the past that bemoan the unqualified teacher, the backpacker, the gap year student, and the 'I just wanna improve my mandarin skills' crowd. Not everyone who comes to teach in China has any intention of TEFL as a career ... and indeed many of them are the people just looking for a long holiday or adventure. This program is perfect for this type of traveller ... and now the suggestions seem to be that these people shouldnt take this type of program ... but instead pitch up at YOUR school ... unqualified, inexperienced, and uncommitted to teaching. (there may be exceptions to this, but I think they would be few)

The tone of the original post suggested to me that the OP was not really committed to teaching and / or teaching in China ... I think the post said something along the lines of 'one day I would quite like to work in China ....' and that was about it. Not that there is anything wrong with this of course, each to their own I think. From my own personal experience of this type of program, I can assure you that most of the people who consider these programs, or travel on them ... are not committed to EFL as a career, and are really just looking to use it as a stepping stone in allowing them to travel ... and have a roof over their head whilst doing so. ON THIS BASIS, surely they are something we should be encouraging a certain type of traveller toward, rather than suggesting they have no place or use whatsoever?

This talk of exploitation is a little false ... I think its a two way street in this example ... of course we can make the assumption than the employers on this program are not very committed to the teachers in question ... but by the same token, the 'teachers' in question are not committed to the industry / profession / country either.

No disrespect to the OP at all - I did first enter China on a similar program myself - but the people that are looking at this program and travelling to China on it, are not CELTA / Trinity qualified teachers with extensive EFL experience looking for a long term stay and teacher development. They are more likely to be unqualified / non native speakers / inexperienced and looking for a short term adventure before heading off to work in their chosen field back in the home countries.

Surely on this basis, these types of programs do have a place for these type of individuals? A UK postman who is just taking his 6 month gap leave and fancies travelling on the cheap can join this program ... I dont want him working next to me in my place of employment where I am serious about my role.

**Ill just ask if anyone on the board works for an employer who is actually using people on this type of program in lieu of employing qualified teachers? I have had experience of this type of program, but I have not yet seen employers use these teachers in lieu of other full paid and employed teachers. In my experience volunteers were almost always at schools that DIDNT employ any other foreign teacher. In my last job we did have volunteers ... their duties included English Corners that paid teachers didnt fancy attending ... and they also did informal classes and free talks that were 'off the timetable'**

I guess what Im saying is I havent seen bad Chinese employers use this schemes as a tool to rob qualified teachers of their jobs ... equally, I havent seen qualified committed teachers use these programs either.

Ill await the flames

[The Ever-changing Cleric]

Given this quote from Katja:

[Katja84]

[xiao51]

[Beyond1984]

"The salary is 2,000 RMB per month which sounds quite low ..." -seagull

I had been planning my escape from the US since 1985, when I took Phonology, my first applied linguistics course. In 2002, when I finally had my TESOL Certificate (from the University of Florida) and was ready to go, I looked first for teaching positions in China.

I was offered 3,500 rmb by an Australian outfit operating in Beijing, which sounded, as seagull puts it, "quite low."

I finally did make it to China in 2006, and at a salary 2.5x what was offered in 2002. But apartment prices had gone up something like 400% during those four years.

My cute Chinese gf loves to berate me for not having come to China sooner; though my salary would have been substantially less, my falcon's eyrie (16th floor new apartment) would have been tremendously cheaper.

Coming to China on a low salary may appear counter-intuitive, but if you read my first chapter of Walden, "Economy," you may better understand why I recommend that you look beyond the salary when considering opportunities for personal and professional fulfillment.

-HDT

I am convinced, both by faith and experience, that to maintain one's self on this earth is not a hardship but a pastime, if we will live simply and wisely....

It is not necessary that a man should earn his living by the sweat of his brow, unless he sweats easier than I do."

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

There are so many people defending the absurdly low salaries I just can't understand it.

When I left China last year, I was making in excess of 18,000 RMB a month, with apartment and flight and utilities provided.

No matter what anyone tells you, if any school says "we can't afford anything more than 6000 RMB a month" is lying to you through their teeth.

[Pelican_Wrath]

[eddy-cool]

[Sugar Magnolia]

I'm not sure about you, but, I'm just trying to enjoy the ride.

18k = McDonald's manager where I'm from. But with the benefits, perhaps supervisor!

Personally, I think managing a McDonald's would be an interesting job. Walgreen's is appealling also. A large grocery store, such as Ralph's, would be nice as well.

6k is a good figure, though. 8 would be better!

Happy Trails!!

Paco

[Beyond1984]

Concerning salaries, the New York Times just posted a story today (May 14) about the salaries and working conditions of the pilots who crashed a Continental Connection flight in February, killing 50:

"In the crash, the first officer, Rebecca L. Shaw [co-pilot, age 23] ... was earning about $23 an hour, or $16,254 annually. She was living with her parents near Seattle and commuting to her job at Colgan�s operation in Newark, N.J."

Full story here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/nyregion/14pilot.html?_r=1&em=&pagewanted=print

So, if the OP decides not to come to China at a low salary to be trained in TESOL, he would do better to join Sugar Magnolia at McDonald's rather than undertake flight instruction.

-HDT

I have reinvented myself as one who no longer flies. Airlines exist to return profit to those who used their capital to buy shares, not to transport humans safely.

[evaforsure]

Her earnings were based on less than 20 hrs per week...

[Yes Sir I Can Bogey]

[Beyond1984]

"Their salaries are to be reduced to [a still substantial] HK$70,000 a month...." -yessir...

If Cathay pilots make so much, one wonders where the airline is cutting corners in order to maximize profit.

It's publicly traded and both its GOAL and its OBJECTIVE (heh heh) is to return profit to investors.

Re-treads on the tires perhaps?

yessir, your suggestion that the OP forego TESOL training in China in order to attend flying lessons, in the bootless hope of an outsized salary at Cathay, appears frivolous.

-HDT

I've enjoyed a good ride (192 years and counting) and will be sipping no more champagne from the boots of first-class cabin stewardesses.