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BobbyBan
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 201
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 Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| passport220 wrote: |
| I don�t go anyplace asking for something for nothing. I would not go to the airport demanding something I am not entitled to. If the law requires me to get a re-entry permit before I arrive at the airport, that is what I will do. If it is a case of immigration bureaucrats giving people the stink eye for making them do their job, I will look at it a different way. I am traveling to the airport with another teacher who has a much earlier flight so I will have time to burn. Maybe someone with actual information and not just snarky banter can post, it would be what I was looking for. |
To be fair I think I was providing you with more than "snarky banter" but a concrete case in which someone was issued a permit only after a some very uncomfortable questioning. I don't know if you will or won't face the same thing but my advice is more as a warning. I may have shown a little frustration given that it is not me you have to convince when it comes to immigration law but immigration officials themselves.
Anyway, thanks to David W for the information. Passport, I would follow-up on the possibility that you won't have to go to immigration personally but can have someone else do so as this would probably be a less hazardous approach than telling immigration what they are obliged to do at the airport.
These are my final two yen.
Good luck.
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passport220
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| BobbyBan wrote: |
| Goodness me young lady, you are persistent! |
I am male, thought you were looking to set a tone. However, thank you for the info. All the best to you.
| Apsara wrote: |
I wonder why it is so hard to accept simply that it is not standard procedure to have a re-entry permit processed at the airport...
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It is not difficult in the least for me to accept. Are you telling me now for sure it is not standard procedure? What is difficult for me to accept is that there is a a policy of �arbitrarily issue re-entry permits but only to a few random people and only with a liberal dose of glum looks� at the airport. It is a unique public policy indeed. Do you think airport employees go to �glum look� training? (re-entry permits are routinely issued over the counter in Korea at the airport btw � not overwhelming)
However, someone in this thread stated one was issued at the airport. That is what I am trying to figure out. It does seem they have the facilities and authority to process a re-entry permit at the airport if the report in this thread is true.
The discretion I was referring to earlier in the thread was the discretion to accept and review an application. Not to grant or deny it. As in, how did the guy in this thead get his application looked at. If they review my application I assume it will be decided based on the merit of the application compared to a set criteria. I am not so paranoid or egotistical to think it would be based on anything else.
I mean it seems they DO review applications at the airport immigration office or else the one guy on this thread is just very �special�. It does not make sense. Did he have on a special suit? Did he just have a great smile? What were the �humiliating acts� he had to perform? Do they issue 1 re-entry permit per day at the airport or 100? A re-entry permit is not a matter of life and death, why did airport immigration issue the permit if they were not required to accept such applications when requested in the first place?
I am not sure what �a lot of uncomfortable questions� means. If I have the proper paperwork (maybe he did not � no detail on exactly what took place), I am at the office where re-entry permits are issued, I will not feel uncomfortable.
That is the heart of the question I was asking about the rule, law or duty of the immigration office at the airport to review permit applications. Good enough if others can confirm they got their permit at the airport. Btw I don�t think I will get a satisfactory answer here, but I do thank you for the replies. I am just caught up in the debate at this point. |
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Apsara
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 2142
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't think you will find anyone to tell you anything other than what we have told you. Good luck, and report back when you get the chance so that we can pass on your experiences to the next person who asks. |
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passport220
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| Apsara wrote: |
| I don't think you will find anyone to tell you anything other than what we have told you. Good luck, and report back when you get the chance so that we can pass on your experiences to the next person who asks. |
I understand it is policy that you are encouraged to apply for a permit at a regional office. I am trying to understand if there are any legitimate alternatives available. I have a background in public policy and I am also trying to find out for general interest.
Bobby gave a vague account of his friend�s experience (not sure how to interpret � �angry questions", "humiliating hoops� but a permit is given in the end). I figured out others were just chiming in with uninformed speculation.
I am "the next person", I am looking for someone to pass on their experiences. Have you ever applied for a permit at the airport? |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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Why are you stretching this out for 3 pages? Just go to immigration and get the permit. The time you spent on this thread could have been spent going to immigration.
Yeah, immigration will process a request for a permit if you are at the airport. They won't like it, and you should allow more time than at the downtown offices, but you can get one there.
Just go to the immigration office, though. It's one reason it's there. |
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passport220
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| Yeah, immigration will process a request for a permit if you are at the airport. |
Actual information (I think)�.wheeeeeeee! Did you get a re-entry permit from the airport?
Ahm, I do not live close to the downtown office. Regional immigration offices have limited daytime hours of operation. I have classes scheduled during those hours.
I will be at the airport fairly early in the morning. My flight is later in the afternoon; I believe I have reasonable time to request a permit from airport immigration if they are �duty bound� to accept my application. At least 2 pages of this tread are to clear up if airport immigration is required to accept such applications. |
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Apsara
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 2142
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:20 am Post subject: |
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| passport220 wrote: |
| Apsara wrote: |
| I don't think you will find anyone to tell you anything other than what we have told you. Good luck, and report back when you get the chance so that we can pass on your experiences to the next person who asks. |
I understand it is policy that you are encouraged to apply for a permit at a regional office. I am trying to understand if there are any legitimate alternatives available. I have a background in public policy and I am also trying to find out for general interest.
Bobby gave a vague account of his friend�s experience (not sure how to interpret � �angry questions", "humiliating hoops� but a permit is given in the end). I figured out others were just chiming in with uninformed speculation.
I am "the next person", I am looking for someone to pass on their experiences. Have you ever applied for a permit at the airport? |
Okay, I'll answer this one since you seem to think we are all just blowing smoke. While I have not applied at the airport myself (when my stepfather died suddenly and I had to go back to NZ the same day, I actually went to the airport VIA the Immigration office to make sure I did not have any hassles with the re-entry permit), I, like others posting here, have been in Japan for a long time (11 years), and have heard from others as well as having read numerous accounts on internet sites about what tends to happen when you try to get your re-entry permit at the airport.
All second-hand, anecdotal evidence to be sure, but I doubt it's a coincidence that we are all coming up with exactly the same scenario in our "uninformed speculation".
Now I will engage in some speculation, but from what I know from my own experience dealing with Japanese officials in the past, the "angry questions" might consist of many variations on the theme of "why did you not get your re-entry permit at the Immigration office like you are supposed to?", and the "humiliating acts" would possibly be having to make multiple verbal apologies as well as possibly writing a letter of apology- a common punishment for not following "standard procedure" when dealing with bureaucrats in Japan. Or I might be completely wrong and they will give you your stamp with a smile and an "itterasshai".
My answer to you, based on what I have heard many times during my years in Japan is yes, they will give you your stamp, but it is unlikely to be with good grace.
Now it's up to you to find out just how uninformed our replies were. If I was totally wrong then I for one would be happy to know that. |
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passport220
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:36 am Post subject: |
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Thank you for the reply. �Actual anecdotal� experiences are helpful. Bobby�s vague one is the only one so far. From other people�s experiences I can an idea of what the policy is �on the ground� in the absents of the actual policy (hours permits are issues, how much time is �too little time", bring a duty stamp or not). I am not trying to be rude to anyone, but I can speculate all on my own on likely answers.
It turns out I will be at the airport during normal daytime business hours, so I think that is a plus. A duty stamp will be required so I will bring one (less work/time and hassle at the airport �more likely to get the permit issued) even if it shows premeditation not to follow the encouragement to get the permit at the regional office, I think it will be a net plus. I will have all other paperwork in order.
People seem to be but off that I don't really care how the airport officials feel about issuing the permit. I don't as long as they do it!
I am a reasonable person who is making a reasonable request. I have �world experience� and feel confident if permits are regularly issued at the airport, I can navigate the process in a reasonable and diplomatic way and get one. Part of the reason I feel confident, is I will ask questions in forums like this and come to the airport as prepared as I can.
Your experienced view on the actions of Japanese officials is helpful. If they want to know why I did not get the permit earlier I will politely explain it to them. If they would like me to follow local custom and apologies in written or verbal form, I will not feel humiliated.
Last edited by passport220 on Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:41 am Post subject: |
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Greetings,
I am currently a second year ALT on the JET Programme in Shizuoka prefecture. I am planning a trip to Singapore, Malaysia, and Indonesia for March 2010. When it comes time to arrange my re-entry permit for this trip, I will take the following information into account:
(from page 173 of the "JET Diary: 2008-2009"--this is a personal planner which also has several pages of useful information for living in Japan. This has been given to each of the 4,682 JET ALTs, CIRs, and SEAs for the 2008-2009 academic year)
"2. Re-entry Permits
If you leave Japan during the period of your contract to travel, you must obtain a re-entry permit (sainyuukoku kyokasho) before departing Japan in order to re-enter. The cost of a single re-entry permit is 3,000 yen and a multiple re-entry permit (to re-enter Japan numerous times is 6,000 yen. Permits can be obtained from your local immigration office. If you leave the country without a re-entry permit, you will not be able to enter Japan again [...]"
Now...one COULD try to go to the airport and get a re-entry permit, but really, why would one do that? I personally would rather take half a day or a full day's worth of nenkyuu and just get it done and then go to the airport on my day of departure with 100% peace of mind.
The standard procedure IS to go to the local immigration office and get the re-entry permit sorted out beforehand. Again, why would one wait until the day of departure to attempt a procedure that is in no way certain to be fruitful (that is, getting the re-entry permit sorted out at the airport on the day of departure)?
As for living far away from the local immigration office and having to take time off work, nothing, unfortunately, can be done about that. One's superiors would hopefully be understanding of this need to take time of work, especially if one is fully willing to make up the work missed.
Here is the link again from David W. NO WHERE on this link does it mention any possibility whatsoever of obtaining a re-entry permit at the airport on the day of one's departure. Again, the standard procedure IS to apply for it at one's local immigration bureau.
http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/english/tetuduki/kanri/shyorui/06.html
Check the web for local prefectural websites for further information.
Regards,
fat_chris
Last edited by fat_chris on Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:50 am; edited 2 times in total |
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passport220
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:45 am Post subject: |
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| fat_chris wrote: |
| ... NO WHERE on this link does it mention any possibility whatsoever of obtaining a re-entry permit at the airport on the day of one's departure. Again, the standard procedure IS to apply for it at one's local immigration bureau... |
Thanks Chris, it is crystal clear to me that permit seekers are encouraged to obtain the permit at the regional immigration office. |
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starteacher
Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 237
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:59 am Post subject: |
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An immigration officer friend has let me known that any visa can be gotten at ports of entry (airports, sea ports, crossings, checkpoint charlies, etc). It is international immigration law.
Whether you can actually get the necessary visa on time or not is up to you. And up to the man in charge there. Guess what, they may just have run out of the application forum, what a shame 
My friend also says that immigration officials can also shoot on sight without warning if they feel anything suspect, whereas mainland police need to give a warning before they open fire.
It is very difficult to take recourse action with immigration. Even heads of states need to bring their passports and visas.
So be prepared to be stripped search and watch out for those rubber gloves.
And be sure to always smile.  |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| passport220 wrote: |
| Glenski wrote: |
| Yeah, immigration will process a request for a permit if you are at the airport. |
Actual information (I think)�.wheeeeeeee! Did you get a re-entry permit from the airport? |
No, I did the smart thing and got it when I renewed my visa at immigration. No offense.
If you had planned this better, you wouldn't have needed to contact people here and argue for a week. Look at the MOFA site and you'll find this page linked with info on how to dial a FAX number or phone number and get the information you needed. No need to leave the office.
http://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/visa/11.html
Or call the Tokyo Regional Immigration Office.
http://www.moj.go.jp/ENGLISH/information/iic-01.html
NO excuses about not knowing enough written or spoken Japanese, as you can get the assistance you need from your employer.
| Quote: |
| Ahm, I do not live close to the downtown office. Regional immigration offices have limited daytime hours of operation. I have classes scheduled during those hours. |
And, because this issue affects your ability to stay legally in the country, your employer wouldn't give you the necessary time off for half a day to get this earlier?
| Quote: |
| it is crystal clear to me that permit seekers are encouraged to obtain the permit at the regional immigration office. |
Then why didn't you get one earlier?
No, no, no. Don't scare him that way. He can read the specs on the reentry permit here, and click on a link that takes him to the very form he needs to fill out.
http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/english/tetuduki/kanri/shyorui/06.html |
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Hoser
Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 694
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Now I just feel stupid for going to the immigration office all those times. Why in the world have us fools been taking a 45 minute trip out of our way to sit in a line for an hour when we could just get it all taken care of at the airport! |
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passport220
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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Snarky banter�..wheeeeeee!
| Glenski wrote: |
No, I did the smart thing and got it when I renewed my visa at immigration. No offense.
If you had planned this better, you wouldn't have needed to contact people here and argue for a week� |
I am planning it now. I am determining if the probability of getting a re entry permit at the airport is high or low to make a decision on the action I will take.
BTW, I can arrange time off to visit the regional office if need be. However, I have this weird idea that the sole reason I have a work visa in Japan and the reason I want a re-entry permit is to teach Japanese students English. I have a set schedule of classes and comprehensive curriculum for the term to teach said students. I would prefer not to have the flow of the curriculum broken with petty paperwork details if it can be avoided.
| Hoser wrote: |
| Now I just feel stupid for going to the immigration office all those times. Why in the world have us fools been taking a 45 minute trip out of our way to sit in a line for an hour when we could just get it all taken care of at the airport! |
I will feel the same way if the airport is in a de facto regional immigration office when it comes to issuing re entry permits and I did not avail myself of it.
What would be more valuable use of thread space:
A) Maternal posts of what I �should do�? Yes mommy, I understand the regional office is the highest probability for a permit. Yes, mommy I have a back up plan if I fail to get a permit at the airport.
or
B) Collectively determine if the airport is a de facto regional office in issuing re-entry permits by posting information about experiences having permits issued at the airport.
Glenski you made the definitive statement earlier in this thread of
| Glenski wrote: |
| Yeah, immigration will process a request for a permit if you are at the airport. |
May I ask what that statement is based on? |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I am planning it now. I am determining if the probability of getting a re entry permit at the airport is high or low to make a decision on the action I will take. |
You wouldn't have to if you...ah, forget it.
| Quote: |
| BTW, I can arrange time off to visit the regional office if need be. However, I have this weird idea that the sole reason I have a work visa in Japan and the reason I want a re-entry permit is to teach Japanese students English. I have a set schedule of classes and comprehensive curriculum for the term to teach said students. I would prefer not to have the flow of the curriculum broken with petty paperwork details if it can be avoided. |
"Petty"? You really need to confront your personal issues with authority. You will not have a job or schedule or students if you...again, ah, forget it. This is becoming rather trollish behavior.
| Quote: |
| May I ask what that statement is based on? |
Over a decade of living here. Nuff said. |
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