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Chris21
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 366
Location: Japan
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 Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| Not necessarily. One can quit with 2 weeks notice if one has been there a year or more. The month is what an employer is obligated to give as a minimum when they fire someone. We both know that plenty of foreigners leave with less notice than 30 days, too. In either case, with the flooded market now, a month is more than enough time to get a replacement! |
I'm confused as to your point. If a month is a conservative amount of time to replace someone, as you suggest in your post, wouldn't two months to wait for a working visa by problematic?
Person A gives a month's notice on April 1st (as per the conservative side of your example). The company places an ad for people, and has interviews lined up by April 7th. They blow through the interviews and decide on someone by April 14th. Their new hire won't actually be able to teach for them until June 14th, and that's if they can complete all of the paperwork and submit the visa application on the same day that the person is hired. Who is going to teach person A's classes from April 15-June 13? |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| I meant that it would be inconceivalbe for foreigners to obtain citizenship not because they wouldnt want to but because of the difficulty. A friend recently recounted the difficulty he went through trying to obtain permanent resident status for his foreign wife. Apparently it took him years just to get that, a process that is virtually automatic in my country. This is perhaps anecdotal. But I have never heard from Japanese friends that obtaining citizenship is `quite easy`. |
Rolliing Stone,
Getting Japanese citizenship is not really all that hard, but it depends on one's situation. You can actually apply for it before you apply for PR!
http://www.debito.org/naturalization.html
TO QUALIFY FOR JAPANESE CITIZENSHIP, YOU MUST:
a) have lived continuously (hiki tsuzuki) at Japanese addresses for five years
b) be over twenty years of age "in terms of mental and legal capacity" (20 sai ijou de honkokuhou ni yotte nouryoku o yuusuru koto)
c) behave well (sokou ga zenryou de aru koto)--and they do check--my dictionary even has the word "sokou chousa" (personal conduct survey) in it
d) demonstrate the means to support your family
e) be willing to relinquish the citizenship of your native country once Japanese citizenship is granted
f) respect the Japanese Constitution (i.e. don't plot against or advocate destroying it, or associate or join a group or political party which does)
Guidelines for Permission for Permanent Residence
1. Legal requirements
(1) The person is of good conduct.
The person observes Japanese laws and his/her daily living as a resident does not invite any social criticism.
(2) The person has sufficient assets or ability to make an independent living.
The person does not financially depend on someone in the society in his daily life, and his/her assets or ability, etc. are assumed to continue to provide him/her with a stable base of livelihood into the future.
(3) The person�s permanent residence is regarded to be in accord with the interests of Japan.
1. In principle, the person has stayed in Japan for more than 10 years consecutively. It is also required that during his/her stay in Japan the person has had work permit or the status of residence for more than 5 years consecutively.
2. The person has been never sentenced to a fine or imprisonment. The person fulfills public duties such as tax payment.
3. The maximum period of stay allowed for the person with his/her current status of residence under Annexed Table 2 of the Immigration Control and Refugee Recognition Act is to be fully utilized.
4. There is no possibility that the person could do harm from the viewpoint of protection of public health.
http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/english/tetuduki/zairyuu/guide_residence.html
Both of the above have exceptions, of course, and if you are married to a Japanese national, getting PR takes less time for most. (I got mine less than 2 months after applying, for example, and many people report that immigration's prescribed 3-6 months is pretty much right on.)
Rolling Stone wrote:
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| However, I have provided at least one example of what it took merely to get a spousal visa, which so far is more than what you or anyone else have provided in response. |
I must've missed that question in this ever-lengthening thread. If the question was asked, I'll be happy to explain what it took for me. I was between jobs, and all it took was a 2-week wait. Wife's father sponsored me because my wife was only a PT worker. In the last year or 2, some people on these forums have reported a bit more difficulty in getting the spouse visa, but the problems vary with two sorts of situations:
1) their nationalities, and
2) whether they are applying inside or outside Japan.
Otherwise, the regs have essentially not changed. Debito has reported that the Sapporo office tightened up its regs by requesting more info than usual, but on closer examination, I think he also discovered that other immigration offices had already been doing that. Maybe not all, but certainly others. And, with the thread of terrorism and human trafficking gripping the world, Japan's conservatism rears its head by being more cautious, especially about certain nationalities (e.g., Chinese, Filipinos) marrying into the culture.
Chris21 wrote:
| Quote: |
| I'm confused as to your point. If a month is a conservative amount of time to replace someone, as you suggest in your post, wouldn't two months to wait for a working visa by problematic? |
If a teacher gives 30 days' notice, the employer just looks for people who are already here (quite a few, you have to agree) with a valid visa. No down time. That's why I wrote "with the flooded market now, a month is more than enough time to get a replacement!" |
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Chris21
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 366
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| Waiting 2 months is nothing. Employers all over the world, and not even in EFL, wait that long unless they have an emergency fall upon them |
| Quote: |
| If a teacher gives 30 days' notice, the employer just looks for people who are already here (quite a few, you have to agree) with a valid visa. No down time. That's why I wrote "with the flooded market now, a month is more than enough time to get a replacement!" |
I guess I'm just confused as to your position... are you suggesting that employers are justified in hiring only in-country applicants or that they aren't? The first quote undercuts one of the arguments for only in-country hiring, yet the latter quote seems to say the opposite, that two months is indeed a significant obstacle, thereby justifying only in-country hiring. |
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RollingStone
Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 138
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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Once again Glenski hits a triple.  (say what you want about Glenski but I dont think the Japanese forum wants to lose him. The info quality would noticeably suffer)
Thanks for the info! This (and the other anecdotal experiences) is food for thought. Two questions/observations concerning citizenship policy: what is on paper tends to be the minimum and, well, tends to exist solely on paper. The policy, as presented, seems to suggest any normal person can easily obtain citizenship. Skeptical, but food for thought. Also, issues pertaining to nationalities is likely quite relevant. In my PR example the wife was Filipino, not NA or European. That perhaps played a significant role. Or maybe there were other issues he didnt reveal. |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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I got a spousal visa pretty easily as well, and then jumped on the PR wagon. I had been in Japan all of 4 years, but this was back in 2000.
Glenski posted
| Quote: |
Quote:
Waiting 2 months is nothing. Employers all over the world, and not even in EFL, wait that long unless they have an emergency fall upon them
Quote:
If a teacher gives 30 days' notice, the employer just looks for people who are already here (quite a few, you have to agree) with a valid visa. No down time. That's why I wrote "with the flooded market now, a month is more than enough time to get a replacement!" |
Chris 21 posted
| Quote: |
| I guess I'm just confused as to your position... are you suggesting that employers are justified in hiring only in-country applicants or that they aren't? The first quote undercuts one of the arguments for only in-country hiring, yet the latter quote seems to say the opposite, that two months is indeed a significant obstacle, thereby justifying only in-country hiring. |
I think the key words are emergency. Companies often interview people at different times, even when they don't need anyone. But as you alluded to by example, if a company needs someone right away, of course they will probably hire someone with a employment visa (or other that allows them to work) in hand immediately. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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Chris21,
I have not tried to say anything at all about what justifies employers in hiring inside or outside Japan. Obviously, there are reasons for doing both.
Gaijinalways:
| Quote: |
| I think the key words are emergency. Companies often interview people at different times, even when they don't need anyone. But as you alluded to by example, if a company needs someone right away, of course they will probably hire someone with a employment visa (or other that allows them to work) in hand immediately. |
Yes, probably. Just heads up for that employer who is unwilling to go the legal route, and who will ask for someone to start work immediately (even if you live overseas), and that he will sort out the visa paperwork later. A few people have reported this scam, where the teacher works illegally as a tourist, expecting a visa to be processed and told about "delays" or "mistakes" in the processing until he has overstayed. Then, he is fired without a final paycheck and has no legal recourse because he is an overstayer and faces immigration's wrath.
RollingStone,
| Quote: |
| Two questions/observations concerning citizenship policy: what is on paper tends to be the minimum and, well, tends to exist solely on paper. The policy, as presented, seems to suggest any normal person can easily obtain citizenship. Skeptical, but food for thought. |
Yup, here and in probably many other countries. Bureaucracies have their regulations, rules, and guidelines. The key is in learning which are hard and fast rules, and which are flexible, vague guidelines that aren't broken but understood as being flexible and vague because humans wrote them to try accommodating a variety of situations, many that can't be foreseen. Doesn't hurt to also realize that demanding anything from immigration is a poor way to get results, even when the guidelines are flexible and vague. Try to work within the system, not beat immigration over the head with the rule book to get one's way.
| Quote: |
| Also, issues pertaining to nationalities is likely quite relevant. In my PR example the wife was Filipino, not NA or European. That perhaps played a significant role. Or maybe there were other issues he didnt reveal. |
Oh, there are probably lots of other issues. I could name 3 off hand (hey, it's late at night).
1) Place of birth. Look at the recent case of the Filipino family (Calderon) that entered Japan illegally and overstayed for many years here, had a child born in Japan, and then were discovered. http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=7519 The daughter doesn't have Japanese citizenship, I think, but has known only Japan as her home and mother tongue. Yet, her parents were forced to leave because of their breaking of the law. The daughter was not. She is here on a special residence visa, but could naturalize if she wanted to (after she finishes HS). She would have to petition to allow her parents to stay here then.
2) Method of birth. Take the case of the Japanese family http://articles.latimes.com/2003/oct/24/world/fg-japan24 whose twin sons were born in California in 2003 to an American surrogate mother that donated eggs. Since Japan didn't recognize surrogacy, the kids could not get Japanese citizenship that way. They were not listed on the family registry and had to carry alien cards. By 2007, this had not changed, even for a woman who gave birth to her daughter's child because the daughter was unable to conceive, nor for a famous actress and athlete http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oGkm0AwDNKm2ABHWNXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTByamR1NnFoBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNgRjb2xvA3NrMQR2dGlkAw--/SIG=12d3jnth7/EXP=1244991872/**http%3a//www.javno.com/en/celebrities/clanak.php%3fid=28957 . It had not changed by 2008 for a couple who had their child born in India http://premium.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/08/12/surrogate.baby/index.html .
3) Paternity vs. matrimony. Only recently did they finally overturn the nationality law, which previously prevented children born to a Japanese father (unwed to Filipino mother) from getting citizenship. http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2005/04/14/Court-overturns-Japans-Nationality-Law/UPI-12941113465575/
Want to know more about citizenship or naturalization, look here for starters.
http://www.crnjapan.com/japan-law/japanese-citizenship.html
www.debito.org
Want to know more about PR and what it takes to get it? Read the immigration guidelines themselves and see how vague it can be to pass or fail in getting it.
http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/english/tetuduki/zairyuu/eizyuu.html
I don't pretend to know all the information. I just share what I do know or have learned in the past decade of watching half a dozen forums like ESL Cafe.
(only a triple?)  |
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RollingStone
Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 138
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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Wow. Thanks for the links! Am following up for sure.
| Glenski wrote: |
(only a triple?) |
Ha! I knew this would raise an eyebrow. Of course. As a great fan of the game I believe the triple is the most exciting (thus, interesting) play. |
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