Job Discussion Forums

[coledavis]

I've just had contact with another school in Russia. One of the things they are sick of is native speakers who have got TEFL certificates but can't teach. Ok, there is no guarantee that you'll emerge from a CELTA or Trinity as a good teacher, but you'll have a set of decent standards to aspire to (yes, I know that nobody prepares their own materials all the time like you do on the course!).

Try to imagine the misery of having got that job and then finding that you're not doing it at all well. Your students don't appreciate you, as a result, your employers won't appreciate you and, if you're honest, you'll start to dislike yourself. 'Having a job' won't be much of a consolation after a while.

I have heard people who haven't actually done it say, 'well you just go out there and use a textbook'. Yes, most of us do use a book to give structure to what we do. But we also have to have a 'feel' for when board work is necessary and when it is necessary to adapt, replace or supplement the materials provided, and how to adapt your game to different levels of student ability.

Yes, in theory, you could do all of this and more without a decent qualification. But there's thinking about it (tomorrow, I shall learn the piano and compose an epoch-knackering symphony) and doing it.

[Dancing Monkey]

"yes, I know that nobody prepares their own materials all the time like you do on the course!)."

In CHINA, I have never used a book and always use my own materials.

The "real" teachers always surface to the top.

[coledavis]

While I take off my hat to you for your industry, I rather think that you are in the minority. And as for your being the top, and the others not being 'real' teachers, that's just your opinion and, I think, rather deluded. Some of the best teachers I know and have known have used 'the book' as their structure and then built around it with other material and their own skills and personality.

[Dancing Monkey]

Cole,

"Real" teachers don't need a core structure/book to build around. We are the core.

I learned that in my online TEFL course www.onlinetefl.com

[mozzar]

Using a book doesn't make you any less of a good teacher - it simply means you can save hours each week not having to start lessons from scratch. The books have been written by a group of professionals with many years of experience and therefore I see it as perfectly acceptable to use them as the core for a lesson. It can also give students the ability to recheck or plan ahead (if they have a copy of the book themselves).

[coledavis]

Well, core.

[nickpellatt]

Dancing Monkey - without wishing to sound to harsh, your comments illustrate why the original poster on this thread should avoid the i-i course you have posted a link to. Having done an i-i course myself (and so having first hand experience of them) I would say with 100% confidence they will not equip you with the knowledge, experience or skill set to effectively prepare lesson plans without using course material.

I actually worked in China for 18 months after taking an i-i course, and spent a lot of time in the classroom being the 'core' of the lesson. I often used my own material too.

Then after a summer working in EFL in the UK, I invested in a Trinity course, and realised how much I didnt know, and how bad someone of my lessons probably were. To suggest an online course will equip you with enough knowledge to prepare lesson materials and teach professionally and effectively is nonsense in my experience.

To suggest a CELTA or Trinity course can equip you to do this is also stretching the truth ... but a recognised course DOES (in my experience) put you in a position where you can start to think objectively and professionally about your lessons.

The core of lessons should actually be the students learning ... the book, the teacher, are just things that should contribute to that.

In all honesty, the i-i courses I took were a total waste of money, and I would suggest to the OP they should be avoided at all costs. I took two courses with them, a standard online cert and then an add-on option, which was teaching business English ... and as great as my China experience was, I do kinda feel I cheated my students a little, because I know Im a hell of a lot better at my job now, having completed a 'real' course ... and I kinda wish I did that first as Im sure it would have made my teaching, and my students experience of me, even better.

There was nothing in my online courses that would equip me with the knowledge to prepare (for example) a lesson using second conditional statements, and ensuring students know the difference in form and function between second and third conditionals. That is a standard type of lesson that is used in EFL classrooms all over the world ... recognised courses should put you in a position of understanding such things, and give you a base to work from in preparing suitable plans (with or without the aid of a book)

[santi84]

[Stephen Jones]

[Chancellor]

[Dancing Monkey]

To all whom are interested,

I have been conducting oral English lessons in China for 5 years, yes Nick, that is a 5, not 1.5 years. Don't let my join date fool you.

Before I came here I decided to see what "i-to-i" had to say. At that time, schools did not require a TEFL certificate. I enrolled in the course for my own benefit. I believe that I learned a few things in the online course. It covered topics that I was unaware of which piqued in me a desire to discover more on my own, which I did, a little.

I admit, I was not trained in school to be a teacher. I was trained to be a lawyer. Not that that means anything, my JD degree/career and a token will get me on the bus, but, legal beagles certainly do a lot of writing. I am retired from that profession and now see myself as a dedicated purveyor of the English language and my country's culture.

I can not give advice pertaining to any country other than China. Here, most Foreign "Teachers" are engaged in the facilitating of conversations in the target language - English. It is not our job to "teach" grammar. To be honest, I have no clue what a past participle is, nor do I care. I know how to speak, and write for that matter, English properly.

Quite frankly, most of the students would feel "boring" if I told them that this is a subject, that is a predicate, verb, noun etc... Adverbs are interesting though. I particularly admire and adore alliterations, albeit.

Personally, I think CELTA and Trinity are for people who lack the confidence needed to stand up in front of a group of people and speak. I am not one of them and enjoyed spending the $1800. "i-to-i" cost around $200 USD.

Granted, not everyone has an advanced degree and certain certifications may be key in their resumes rising to the top. I agree with what Justin wrote - resumes/CV's without a TEFL certificate are ignored, unless of course they really need a "teacher".

It has become the trend here in China to require a TEFL certificate, of any kind, and 2 years "teaching" experience. When I came in 2004 all they "officially" required was a degree and 2 years work experience. I assume 2 years of delivering pizza would suffice. What I would do for a nice sausage pizza now, even at 8am, is beyond words. The breakfast of Champions!

Either way, I'm sure other nations have more stringent requirements and actually want people who know what a past participle is, but, China is not one of those. My advice to Viktor and anyone else out there interested in "teaching" in China remains the same - get an online TEFL certificate. Do not waste your time or money on a CELTA, unless, of course, you feel the need to boost your confidence.

Believe me, there are no snakes in there, just a bunch of kids who marvel at your funny features. Have fun and get them talking. If you need any tips, let me know.

As for the book, the 1st university that I worked at in Nanjing gave me a book, but, none of the students had it. The 2nd university in Shanghai didn't provide either me or the students with a book and the 3rd, my current employer, gave me 2 books (1 & 3 of a series); a few of the students had #2 of the series.

I eventually acquired the 2nd book and read it when I'm on the throne.

All Chinese students are compelled to take English and most really don't care. It is my job to get them interested and talking. I think I've done a pretty good job so far.

Again, my advice only pertains to China.

My motto, as taught to me in my first job = get them loud!

Now, though, in hindsight, my advice to younger people thinking about a career in TEFL is this - graduate from college, get an online TEFL certificate and find a job in China or whatever country that has lax standards to see if you like it. If you do, then, after a year or two, go home and obtain a MA in the field.

Good Luck!

[Viktor87]

Perhaps, Dancing Monkey, the real advantage in being in China lies not in teaching the current international language, but rather getting a leg up on learning the next one
I have nothing but awe and respect for the country- so, seemingly, does every acquaintance I've had who has actually been there.
If you ask me why I prefer Japan I would probably confess it's something childish or irrational.
I'm surprised how long this thread has lasted- far beyond the scope of my original question.

[Stephen Jones]

You basically dancing monkey you've no idea about the structure of the language you 'teach'. and view your job, possibly correctly, as that of being a dancing, chattering monkey.

I notice that Marisa Tomei in 'My cousin Vinnie' didn't know a thing about law, but did a better job than her boyfriend, who was a trained lawyer. Would you recommend would be lawyers in the South of the US to do a quick online course instead of bothering about a JD?

[Dancing Monkey]

What I am typing about is "teaching" in China, Ms. Jones.

If you have anything to add on that topic, feel free to share your thoughts.

I do like your syntax.

I do this for fun. I certainly ain't in it for the money. Why is it most of my students approve of what transpired in our class?

The way I see it, the other's are just upset that I didn't remember their name. Perhaps that was because they were shy?

Perhaps I'm a natural born teacher who didn't need a CELTA or Trinity to get results. I say, you are jealous. It doesn't matter, you do your thing and I'll do mine.

This is beautiful, now the focus is on me and my advice to future facilitators in China.

I wonder how the ESL scene is in Buffalo, Chancellor? What exactly is Santi doing now and where does Cole teach?

Hut 2, 3, 4 - What? You are late and don't have a pen? Minus 5 points. Now students, arrange your desks in an orderly fashion. This is a real class and you will act accordingly. I spent $2,000 on a CELTA and deserve such respect. Now, lets read from the point, page 66.

Even "flow". Oh, I see.

If Viktor wants to go to Japan, by all means try it kid. What do you have to lose?

[Mr. Kalgukshi]

Several inappropriate postings have been deleted. One member is now an ex-member and another member will not be with us for a couple of weeks. This thread is locked.