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Hot2GlobeTrot
Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 82
Location: Calgary, Canada
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 Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Stephen Jones wrote: |
| JUstin's point is not that EFL teachers shouldn't date adult students, but that the doesn't want the hassle occurring on the CELTA course with the practice students. |
practice students? |
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Hot2GlobeTrot
Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 82
Location: Calgary, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
| I think its unethical to date students of any age. Refrain until the teaching is over. |
well, of course the gray area becomes what if you meet "the one"? Are you supposed to not pursue it jst because you teach/ taught her? Assuming of age and so forth...
again, I'm not getting into this to pursue girls. I'll be at universities in both Paris and Moscow and will have no trouble meeting girls. |
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Hot2GlobeTrot
Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 82
Location: Calgary, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| johnslat wrote: |
Dear Stephen,
"About the only time where there would be a problem is when the teacher is responsible for giving grades that will be valid externally, as in a university."
OK, but I believe in "internal" ethics, as well. Even if the grades aren't "valid externally," dating a student you're currently teaching raises (to me) a "conflict of interest" and undue influence.
Regards,
John |
not to be glib, but if I start dating, say, a french girl to whom i was teaching English, and the purpose of her taking the course is to learn to speak better English, uhm, she will become a better speaker. Where is the conflict of interest?
it's not like it's a physics tutor where odds are you wont be discussing gamma rays or what have you. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Hot2GlobeTrot,
" . . . start dating, say, a french girl to whom i was teaching English . ."
No problem - it's the "was" that makes the difference.
On rereading your post, I'm not sure, though. Did you make a grammatical error there?
Regards,
John |
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riverboat
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 117
Location: Paris, France
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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If you teach in Paris, chances are you're going to be teaching people in very small groups, ie mostly just one-to-one or in groups of two or three people. And chances are their company is paying for them to take the course. If you're teaching, for example, a group of three students, dating one of them, and the other two catch wind of it (which, if they all work together, they probably will), it's DEFINITELY going to have an effect on the dynamics of your tiny little classroom. If one of the other students then complains to their manager, or the school, it won't reflect well on you.
If you're teaching one-to-one, and start dating your student...well yeah, obviously the student ends up practising their English more outside the classroom because you speak it together, that's one way of looking at it. But conversation is only one part of it. Inside the classroom, getting them to concentrate on learning difficult grammar points, to accept and understand correction, to follow instructions etc...it could be very tricky. And again, if your student's company finds out they're dating their teacher, they may not be best pleased.
Professionally and ethically, I think you should wait until the course is over. Once it's finished, I think it's fair enough to date all the ex-students you want. Presuming they want too.
And re "practice students", on the CELTA course you'll be teaching real students who have paid to learn English from you and your fellow teacher-trainers. |
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Hot2GlobeTrot
Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 82
Location: Calgary, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| johnslat wrote: |
Dear Hot2GlobeTrot,
" . . . start dating, say, a french girl to whom i was teaching English . ."
No problem - it's the "was" that makes the difference.
On rereading your post, I'm not sure, though. Did you make a grammatical error there?
Regards,
John |
since i'm not yet a linguist i'm not too sure what the proper term is, but i dont mean past tense as in there was an ending. Subjunctive maybe? |
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riverboat
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 117
Location: Paris, France
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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I think it's a mangled second conditional:
Condition:
If I started (past tense) dating a French girl to whom I was (past tense) teaching English
Outcome:
She will become a better speaker (present tense)
The outcome should be "would" become a better speaker, not "will"  |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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[/quote]
maybe I'm naive about who gets into this but i assume it's people with a background in at least writing, if not full on grammatical learning. Point being, if someone can't at least write, I'd assume they wouldn't presume to be an English teacher.
[/quote]
Urghh!! Been my experience that the would-be writers are usually TEFL's least successful teachers. Writing and teaching English to speakers of other languages are completely different things. The only other sub-group that fares even worse is the 'telesales' lot. TTT to beat the band with.... |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Sashadroogie,
But, as the example above shows, I think - grammatical mistakes in writing can lead to incorrect communication.
Regards,
John |
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Hot2GlobeTrot
Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 82
Location: Calgary, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:38 am Post subject: |
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| riverboat wrote: |
If you teach in Paris, chances are you're going to be teaching people in very small groups, ie mostly just one-to-one or in groups of two or three people. And chances are their company is paying for them to take the course. If you're teaching, for example, a group of three students, dating one of them, and the other two catch wind of it (which, if they all work together, they probably will), it's DEFINITELY going to have an effect on the dynamics of your tiny little classroom. If one of the other students then complains to their manager, or the school, it won't reflect well on you.
If you're teaching one-to-one, and start dating your student...well yeah, obviously the student ends up practising their English more outside the classroom because you speak it together, that's one way of looking at it. But conversation is only one part of it. Inside the classroom, getting them to concentrate on learning difficult grammar points, to accept and understand correction, to follow instructions etc...it could be very tricky. And again, if your student's company finds out they're dating their teacher, they may not be best pleased.
Professionally and ethically, I think you should wait until the course is over. Once it's finished, I think it's fair enough to date all the ex-students you want. Presuming they want too.
And re "practice students", on the CELTA course you'll be teaching real students who have paid to learn English from you and your fellow teacher-trainers. |
so students pay to take english classes through wherever i'd do the CELTA course, from someone who isnt yet CELTA certified?
and we might be skirtng another issue, but might as well bring it up; "dating" implies relationship. What if there's no relationship, just....
i get the weirdness in the classroom and that alone would prevent me from doing it...most likely. |
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Hot2GlobeTrot
Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 82
Location: Calgary, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:45 am Post subject: |
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| riverboat wrote: |
I think it's a mangled second conditional:
Condition:
If I started (past tense) dating a French girl to whom I was (past tense) teaching English
Outcome:
She will become a better speaker (present tense)
The outcome should be "would" become a better speaker, not "will" |
whatever it's called, it's not grammatically incorrect is it?
in Italian there's the imperfetto, which is for past tense habitual or ongoing actions. That's what i was trying to say. "Starting" is past tense, "was" is ongoing past tense, therefore couldn't "will" be an ongoing present tense? But since it's theoretical, isn't it the subjunctive?....this is so much easier in languages i've actually learned than my own... |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:24 am Post subject: |
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Dear Hot2GlobeTrot,
I'm afraid it is - which is what caused my confusion.
First I saw this:
" . . . but if I start dating, say, a french girl to whom i was teaching English, . . ."
which made me think that you started the dating AFTER she was your student.
And then I saw this:
" . . . . the purpose of her taking the course is to learn to speak better English . . "
which seemed to mean that she was still studying English with you as her teacher.
If you'd written
" . . . but if I startED dating, say, a french girl to whom i was teaching English, . . ."
then it would have been clear.
Regards,
John |
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norwalkesl
Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 366
Location: Ch-Ch-Ch-Ch-China
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:12 pm Post subject: Re: Interview for the privilege of paying to take CELTA?? |
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| Hot2GlobeTrot wrote: |
I'm looking through Paris CELTA schools to take next year and read that i need to send in the application form, have an interview and be accepted. Presumption being that i must pass the mustard.
Is this a formality or is there a chance they don't accept applicants? What do they look for? |
It is an interview, and the DOS or instructor is attempting to determine if you will be a good candidate. Ability to study, manage time, deal with stress, handle time compression, work with a group of strangers, take the subject seriously, do you know grammar, etc.
You will work with 8 to 12 others.
Whilst it IS possible to FAIL the course, which gives it teeth in the eyes of schools, in practice it does not happen often.
94% Pass
3% Fail
3% Get an 'A'.
This is what I was told during my CELTA:
The one person the instructors gave an A to, between them over 20 years of instructing CELTA's, was able to predict the flow of coursework ahead of time and was a near genius in this one aspect of life. They had no troubles with anything, and the instructors had to go out of their way to criticize their practicums and assignments.
Thus an A is very very rare indeed. Most will pass. Just as 3 in a hundred get an A, there ARE a few who will FAIL even after being vetted. These individuals are spotted easily, and there is a drop out date to save face. The course can be retaken, as well.
It is a difficult class, like compressing a 5/600-level seminar into a month.
In practice you may be doing it in less than 20 days, as I did, due to your slot in the teaching schedule. Or you may be the last to teach and get, functionally, nearly an extra week. I was paired up with an already existing teacher, and this decision helped me greatly in completing successfully in such a short time frame.
It is a real class. You will be working most of the time.
You should put all other aspects of life on hold while you take the course.
Block off the time, study, do the assignments, and do little else. |
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basiltherat
Joined: 04 Oct 2003
Posts: 952
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| Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:27 am Post subject: |
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Sorry to go off at a tangent but, your username ..... is that Norwalk (esl), Connecticut ?
Best
Basil |
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nickpellatt
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 1522
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| Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| Hot2GlobeTrot wrote: |
so students pay to take english classes through wherever i'd do the CELTA course, from someone who isnt yet CELTA certified?
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I took my course in a school that offered lessons as well as teacher training. The fee paying students at the school normally studied in the morning, and were invited to join the teaching practice classes in the afternoon. They didnt have to pay extra for them.
In addition, the school places an advert in the local papers for free English lessons (taken by trainee teachers) during the duration of the teacher training course. The only fee is a returnable deposit, which is designed to ensure the students attend all the lessons.
I thought it worked quite well and ensured classes were well attended with an interesting mix of students. |
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