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AdamtheJohnson
Joined: 10 Nov 2008
Posts: 157
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 Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:57 am Post subject: |
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| How about you take it outside. |
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AdamtheJohnson
Joined: 10 Nov 2008
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:49 am Post subject: |
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Bumping my old thread again. Have had about 9 months, on and off, to reconsider.
As it stands, I am here:
Korea: Pays the best, cheap living, free apt., but difficult Visa process. In addition, Korea has never exactly been on my list of places to holiday.
China: Decent pay for cost of living, would probably save less here than in Korea, but could still do it; free apt., easier application process. China is one of those places on my bucket list, a place I am intensely curious about.
Japan: Good pay, high cost of living, but can still save if responsible; probably easiest culture shock experience. Actually, the only reason I dont do Japan right now is the 'key fees" - I've talked with someone who did AEON who said it cost her $2,000 USD for her first month, while others here have said it could cost as much as $5,000 USD or MORE just to get by the first month. I simply cannot save that much in six months. I'll be lucky to be able to do $2,000 at my current rate.
Japan has been a dream of mine for 5-6 years, I just could never afford the start up costs.
Are my assumptions correct, or do I need to be set straight further?
I'd also like to say I'm very appreciative of the helpful people on this site. This career is like a minefield of bad info. |
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Blingcosa
Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 146
Location: Guangdong
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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Dude - let me make it easy for you. All your umm-ing and aah-ing is ultimately just going to bring you to this conclusion anyway....
C H I N A
Welcome. |
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AdamtheJohnson
Joined: 10 Nov 2008
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Blingcosa wrote: |
Dude - let me make it easy for you. All your umm-ing and aah-ing is ultimately just going to bring you to this conclusion anyway....
C H I N A
Welcome. |
Is that just becuase you like China?  |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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J
| Quote: |
| apan: Good pay, high cost of living, but can still save if responsible; probably easiest culture shock experience. Actually, the only reason I dont do Japan right now is the 'key fees" - I've talked with someone who did AEON who said it cost her $2,000 USD for her first month, while others here have said it could cost as much as $5,000 USD or MORE just to get by the first month. I simply cannot save that much in six months. I'll be lucky to be able to do $2,000 at my current rate. |
I would question using 5000 USD or more in the first month. Of course, you could burn through that if you don't find a job in 3-4 months, but not one month. Get a cheap gaijin guest house (shared room if you want to save more money and can endure less privacy).
rent - Averaging about 62-65k a month for a private room, with one as cheap as 46k a month (prices in yen, utilities included with wifi).
http://guesthouse.co.jp/ENGLISH/location/3_2.htm#label-1-x
http://www.guesthouse.co.jp/ENGLISH/eigo-kaku-house-ryoukin/eigo-Kaku-House-Ryokin-1.html#label-x
Taking meals will depend on how many interviews you go to in an average week. Ideally, if you shotgun resumes to some schools before you arrive, you may even have some interviews set up when you come. You can cook in the guesthouse, but it is a shared kitchen, which can be pretty grungy at times. If you're out because of work or at interviews, buy a boxed lunch (bento) at a convenience store or look for cheaper restaurants with ticket machines.
food - perhaps 2000-3000 yen a day, not including beer
Transportation of course will be a bigger bugbear while going to interviews, though once you land a job, ideally you can a commuter pass for your route to your school (teki) assuming you work in the same school every day (the school will pay for the cost of commuting).
transportation - variable as depends on # of interviews and/or if you work at multiple schools
You should bring as many clothes as you can unless you happen to be a slimmer smaller Westerner, as many sizes here don�t fit average sized Westerners.
clothing - hopefully nothing if you're able to bring enough
Stationery may have to be bought as well, including envelopes, pens, etc for mailing to some schools who may not accept emailed applications.
Entertainment will obviously have to be scaled back as much as possible until you get a job and/or get a few paychecks under your belt. |
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AdamtheJohnson
Joined: 10 Nov 2008
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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I think the high number I got was mostly due to key fees and such. With a program like Aeon though, all that would be payed for, and I would also have a job waiting for me.
So my number might be down to as low as $1,000 if I dont have much to worryu about. |
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Zero
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 1402
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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China. They set everything up for you, especially visa and apartment. No startup costs. They provide a plane ticket. The work hours leave lots of time for enjoying life. Flexibility to earn more money if you want, in your off hours. Fascinating country. Chinese is a useful language, if you choose to learn it. Millions of hot honeys who all want to go on a date with you. Widely reported to be the country of the future.
What else is there to say? |
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AdamtheJohnson
Joined: 10 Nov 2008
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Zero wrote: |
China. They set everything up for you, especially visa and apartment. No startup costs. They provide a plane ticket. The work hours leave lots of time for enjoying life. Flexibility to earn more money if you want, in your off hours. Fascinating country. Chinese is a useful language, if you choose to learn it. Millions of hot honeys who all want to go on a date with you. Widely reported to be the country of the future.
What else is there to say? |
How do you feel about the government in China?
It's a toss up between China and Japan. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Pah! Using the armed forces of Communism to herd the workers into the Kapitalists' sweatshops. |
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Zero
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 1402
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| AdamtheJohnson wrote: |
| Zero wrote: |
China. They set everything up for you, especially visa and apartment. No startup costs. They provide a plane ticket. The work hours leave lots of time for enjoying life. Flexibility to earn more money if you want, in your off hours. Fascinating country. Chinese is a useful language, if you choose to learn it. Millions of hot honeys who all want to go on a date with you. Widely reported to be the country of the future.
What else is there to say? |
How do you feel about the government in China?
It's a toss up between China and Japan. |
I wouldn't foresee the government factoring into your life much as a foreign teacher. It would make a difference if you were an activist, missionary or author. But on a day-to-basis, in some respects, China may feel "freer" than a lot of countries. Feel like having a beer on the bus? You'd be cited in the U.S., but no problem in China. Feel like chucking the can out the window when you're done? In the PRC, chuck away. Feel like teaching private lessons after your shift? A definite no-no in Korea, but probably will be overlooked in China. In some ways China is too "free," to the point of lawlessness. Ask the villagers who live near factories that blithely pump harmful waste into waterways.
Where you will feel a difference is in internet access. Certain sites are blocked in China. There are technological workarounds that are fairly effective, though. |
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AdamtheJohnson
Joined: 10 Nov 2008
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:11 am Post subject: |
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I think I'll just send applications to both, and base my decision on a number of other factors - money, location, hours, school - instead of just a country.
Now I've just got to finally figure out how to do this application process. |
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Blingcosa
Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 146
Location: Guangdong
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:14 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Is that just becuase you like China? |
I do like China, but also you seem to have narrowed it down to Korea, Japan and China.
Of those three countries, you will have the best lifestyle in China, because your money goes the farthest. I have never been to Korea, but it is widely regarded as the least desirable of the three - just a 'do it for the money' place. Japan is flooded with teachers, and you will be limited to a tiny apartment.
Jobs are plentiful in China, the pay is pretty good (I save about $2000/mth, while eating in restaurants for every meal, taking taxis everywhere, and drinking several times a week), and there is so much to see in China compared with the comparatively small nations of Korea & Japan.
You want us to help make the decision for you, so I'm helping as much as I can.
Welcome to China! |
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MrMrLuckyKhan
Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 282
Location: Kingdom of Cambodia
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| Blingcosa wrote: |
I have never been to Korea, but it is widely regarded as the least desirable of the three - just a 'do it for the money' place. Japan is flooded with teachers, and you will be limited to a tiny apartment...
Jobs are plentiful in China, the pay is pretty good (I save about $2000/mth, while eating in restaurants for every meal, taking taxis everywhere, and drinking several times a week)... |
Yeah, even people who say they like Korea for other reasons besides just for the money never really say anything good about it that makes me wanna check it out!
You save $2,000USD a month there? Maybe I missed it, but what are your qualifications and what kind of job do you have there?? |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:25 am Post subject: |
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Blingcosa posted
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| ...and there is so much to see in China compared with the comparatively small nations of Korea & Japan. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_outlying_territories_by_total_area
I suppose in one sense, you're correct, compared to China which rocks in at 3rd or 4th in geographic size in the world, Japan or S. Korea are small. Actually though, all three countries offer things to see from historical and architectural points of views. As a Singaporean taxi driver told me, "Even I haven't seen everything in Singapore, and I've lived here all my life."
Blingcosa posted
| Quote: |
| Jobs are plentiful in China, the pay is pretty good (I save about $2000/mth, while eating in restaurants for every meal, taking taxis everywhere, and drinking several times a week)... |
http://www.china-tesol.com/Jobs_with_TEACH_CHINA/Application_for_TEACH_CHINA__j/Salary_Range_for_foreign_teach/salary_range_for_foreign_teach.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teaching_English_as_a_foreign_language
http://www.transitionsabroad.com/listings/work/esl/articles/teaching_english_and_living_in_china.shtml
I keep seeing averages of 4500RMB/month, where a teacher wouldn't make anywhere near $2000 USD a month, never mind save that much. Granted housing might be free, but ... taxis are relatively cheap but expensive compared to public transportation. Perhaps you have a lot of side jobs, like teaching leading government figures?
4,500.00 CNY = 664.697 USD
http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert.cgi?Amount=4500&From=CNY&To=USD
This sounds very unlikely, so I too am wondering what kind of qualifications you have and where you're working. As to the restaurants, what kind and what does an average meal cost for you? In Beijing, some of the restaurants when I went (December 2009) were fairly cheap, some weren't depending on the area, the food, and how nice the restaurants (interior decoration, level of service, food quality) were. |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:40 am Post subject: |
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http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=83265&highlight=average+salary
This clarifies things a little.
thessy posted
| Quote: |
The first position posted here on Dave's for China is a position with EF. The salary listed is 12,350RMB/month. This base pay for this position on the surface is more than twice what you'll see offered from most public schools or universities. But you need to break down what all is included and for what work...
I believe a 40 hour work week is required to make that salary with EF. A public school will usually have you working 12-16 teaching hours (40-50 minutes) a week.
The salary does not include housing, which in Shenzhen would surely run you 2-3k/month at least. |
thessy posted [quote]"Paid annual leave (10 days + Chinese National Holidays)" for the EF position. For the holidays, generally the actual date of the holiday is the only day off, plus you get another 10 days to use at other times. This compared to a university position where you can expect a month paid holiday (minimum, I had two months this past year) for Chinese New Year alone.
thessy posted
| Quote: |
| A private school is going to have you work evenings and weekends, a public school is generally just weekdays, and usually just mornings and/or afternoons. |
Well, maybe forget about the side jobs with the government figures.
So, let's see 12,350RMB/month
12,350.00 CNY=1,824.22 USD
Oh oh, still not up to $2k USD/month yet! |
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