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mrwslee003
Joined: 14 Nov 2009
Posts: 190
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 Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:52 am Post subject: |
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Then tell me how this moron became such a moron after 14 years through the
"straight jacket" system in China and has not learned one human decency
-respect "authority"!
I just bet my last Canadian nickel that some teachers passed the buck all through his elementary school and high school OR his parents are high and
mighty "cadres" who produced the son of a witch.
In any case the present situation requires and demands "the buck stops here"
applied in the most literal sense.
Tell this kid, if he asks again to return to your class, that you are doing him
and the class a favour by keeping him out: He won't become a permenent jerk in their minds and they can have a peaceful learning environment. And of course you would have more time on teaching rather than on disciplining.
If he says he'll change then tell him to tell his parents that he has become a good student after learning a lesson from you. And he doesn't have to thank
you for it, ever. Of course wish him all the best and shake his hand...and smile. |
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kukiv
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 328
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:15 am Post subject: |
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Then tell me how this moron became such a moron after 14 years through the
"straight jacket" system in China and has not learned one human decency
-respect "authority"! |
Mr Lee - I don't know if you've been to China, but when you do get here you'll find out that the Chinese school system isn't much to do with a straight jacket - but more focused on a so-called academic result over anything else what so-ever.
It's a case of students learning the answers without ever understanding the question - and in such a world the pleasantries of learning and practicing anything we'd consider as necessary social norms for polite living - seem to fall by the wayside.
Saying that students seem to team up - and support each other - so these folk aren't complete animals. But anyone who either falls out with - or deems themselves superior to the mainstream peers - well there ain't much help for them, except the hope that daddies pennies can push them further and further towards some sort of finish line 
As for taking the time and effort to present, illustrate and teach buck stopping concepts to a one man class, one of the by-products of China's education system - well you've gotta ask yourself - am I being paid enough to conduct that type of work  |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| In defense of mrwslee003 (and not just because he supports me), almost every one of the other students that have EVER been in my college classes have been fairly respectful and (for the most part) motivated. Part of my problem with this student was that I had never encountered an ADULT learner like him. I would see it with very young children, when a stern look or a slight raising of the voice would restore order, but I was totally unprepared for anything like this..... |
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kukiv
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 328
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| Part of my problem with this student was that I had never encountered an ADULT learner like him. I would see it with very young children, when a stern look or a slight raising of the voice would restore order, but I was totally unprepared for anything like this..... |
One could conclude from your postings that this student has some sort of social disability - and if he acted this way in a western school would have been probably have been highlighted at an early age for some type of observation and maybe supervision - and probably handed some form of diagnosis.
As I stated in my last post - there's not much, within the Chinese system, to help those who veer from the norm - and sometimes the lure of the next school check with have the dean and other staff members trying at all costs to keep these kids in rather than out of class!!!!
It seems that normal disciplinary procedures are not enough for this kid - it seems that he is a special needs student - and may have been one for a long long time. Psychological rather than academic help could be needed.
As sad as it seems - if we're not equipped, or have back-up in dealing with this kind of case - then you have to let it go. Excluding the student from your class may be the wisest and most pragmatic move. Your professionalism is all about teaching the class, rather than using major energies in dealing with one, impossibly disruptive and disturbed class member. |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| I suppose anything's possible, but my own evaluation is that he was just a show-off, doing this for the benefit of the other students so that they could see how cool he is. Before I removed him, I encountered him one day when there was nobody else around and didn't see a hint of the wise-acre; for a moment I wasn't even sure it was him. |
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kukiv
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 328
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:04 am Post subject: |
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In your first post you wrote -
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| The student came to my apartment one morning shortly thereafter and pounded on my door and yelled that he needed to talk to me. I told him that he woke me up, I wasn't dressed and that we had nothing to talk about (on-campus apartment). He continued pounding on my door and yelling for another twenty minutes. |
Doesn't sound much showing off there - doesn't sound like very rational behavior either - regardless of how "spoiled" he may be. In fact the pounding and screaming seems to even border on the violent and dangerous.
Do yourself and other FT's a big favor - walk on the safe-side - give students like this a big berth. There comes a time when we must think of our own good rather than trying to clean up a mess that's none of our responsibility |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| Once again, I suppose anything's possible, but I never did believe that I was in any real physical danger from this individual; this just boils down to the fact that he is a spoiled brat who's managed to get away with it for much too long and he needs a wake-up call. He was knocking on my door and yelling "John, I need to talk to you!" because he was trying to weasel his way back into class (I should've made that clear in my first post, the part about "he continued pounding on my door and yelling for another twenty minutes"), maybe he was going to try to bribe me. He's probably thrown these sorts of tantrums before and gotten his way and he figured he'd do it again. |
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kukiv
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 328
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:32 am Post subject: |
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An adult who throws tantrums!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tantrum is usually a word linked to the behavior of children - it's a nice way of saying out of control.
If Children take the next step from tantrum to physical action - then it's a bit easier to deal with the situation. But an adult????????????????
How many readers here would be willing to take the chance that an adult tantrum that was taking place outside their apartment door was something they just had sigh away with - "just another spoiled brat."
Back home if an adult pounds on your door for 20 minutes - after you've told them to go away - you're quite entitled to call the police
Of course this ain't back home - but after reading your posts I've got to go with my gut-feeling on this one. |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| I'm the first to admit it loses something in the translation. You hadda be there. |
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kukiv
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 328
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| I'm the first to admit it loses something in the translation. You hadda be there. |
Am I right ion now starting wonder if your described - tantrum of pounding and yelling - should now be softened down into the actions of a concerned, but spoiled student who was desperate to get back into your class?????
Can you describe in a bit more detail the kind of behavior he was showing - that made you kick this guy out of class.
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| he put his face about two inches from mine and snarled "What are you going to do about it? |
Is this also a - 'hadda be there moment" - that seems far more violent in text than it was during its actual execution  |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| It's basically a case of him not wanting to follow instructions, defying any sort of authority, etc. When the dean asked me AGAIN the other day to let him back in the class, the refusal to stop knocking and yelling was one of the incidents that I cited in my refusal to reconsider. "It loses something in the translation" meant that he wasn't just out there caterwauling and trying to break the door down, no, but after I told him that a) I wasn't dressed b) he woke me up and c) we had nothing to talk about, he didn't stop what he was doing. Same thing as when I asked him several times to amend his behavior in class, then told him, then gave him his final warning, it didn't do any good. He does whatever he wants whenever he wants without any regard for the consequences. Probably because he's never had to face any consequences; hence, the spoiled brat who always got away with everything. |
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kukiv
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 328
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| He does whatever he wants whenever he wants without any regard for the consequences. Probably because he's never had to face any consequences; |
Maybe I'm again loosing something in translation, but when you write the word - whatever he wants - then just the use of those words start to sound ominous!!!!!
Back home a teacher in this kind of situation would be attempting to get advice from real qualified experts - after all you're already started playing diagnose the problem game - and have so far come up with a spoiled brat syndrome. But in your China job you've just got a dean on your back who's trying to get you take this student back into the class.
In your own words -
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| he put his face about two inches from mine and snarled "What are you going to do about it? |
you only seem to have been 2 inches from one complete melt down - who in there right mind, with complete lack of resources your job obviously supplies for teachers in 'special-needs' situations - would want to take that kind of problem back into a classroom - who here feels they have the skills, know-how, time and energy to deal with this kind of problem?????????
I would also be interested in what would happen if that complete meltdown did take place - who would get the blame. It often seems, rightly or wrongly, the poor old FT gets the blame for all the incidents that may involve them - I wonder how interested the dean would be in taking your side if brown stuff really hit the fan |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Anything is possible; mental illness, chemical imbalance, whatever causes this sort of thing. My layman's mind compares this to the behavior of a child, that's where my use of the "what he wants, when he wants" comes in. Ominous? I don't know, I am not a behavioral expert. All I can say that his behavior is not appropriate in a classroom setting.
Yes, you are absolutely correct, I don't want to be around him when the brown stuff hits the fan. I definitely do not want to be the test case in Foreigner v. PRC. I have no intention of letting him back into the class, I would resign first. Perhaps I am sloughing the problem off on somebody else; however, I did report all of the incidents that occurred to the dean and the FAO. |
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kukiv
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 328
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes, you are absolutely correct, I don't want to be around him when the brown stuff hits the fan. I definitely do not want to be the test case in Foreigner v. PRC. I have no intention of letting him back into the class, I would resign first. Perhaps I am sloughing the problem off on somebody else; however, I did report all of the incidents that occurred to the dean and the FAO. |
Well done - looks to me like faultless procedure for such an incident. You're certainly not doing anything bad for the cause of FT's at that workplace - maintaining a "fixed in concrete" standard of action to combat the results of other appalling standards seems to be a very wise modus operandi!!!!
As for the concepts surrounding the maintaining of class discipline - well in the face of normal disruptive behavior, and the usual bending of class rules (the talking in class not handing in homework sort of issues) - well that's the daily fare of any teacher. But the threat of violence - well that's out of normal FT jurisdiction - no need to feel bad about letting that kind of trouble go.
Good luck John - and hold your stance. |
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mrwslee003
Joined: 14 Nov 2009
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:52 pm Post subject: John & Mr. Kiv |
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Regardless of what you call it, the student should be where he is-out of John's
class.
You can rationalize his misbehaviour all you like, Mr. Kiv. He is in 2nd year college. Its time to wake up and smell the coffee. If not, his parents will be
old and gray soon and he will still be 40 with a 15 year old mind. John the Ft
has better things to do and he did his share trying to help him in class, giving him umpteen chances to improve but it was too much for his wee mind and
he flunked Behaviour 101.
Don't try to give the guilt trip to the Ft because the school system is a "straight
jacket" with no flexibility nor chance for creative solutions to the "new emperors" generation. It is not the responsibility of the Fts. I was there for 2 years and learned that the grade one teacher has over 50 kids in her class. A grade one student would have 2-3 hours of homework and there were tests every 2 weeks. Each teacher's salary or bonus is based on the marks her students get at the end of the year. At the same time I can appreciate the
situation because when you have 1.3 billion and limited resources, you do what you have to do to get the job done. The elementary school teachers work their
butts off and of course still feel lucky to have the job. Because the factory jobs are worse, compare to what we expect of course.
So, way to go Johnny boy! Just do what you have to do to keep your sanity
and contribute to a more learned China, however minute your part is.
Mr. Kiv can have his say of course because we have that luxury. Have a good day. |
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