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anthonyteo
Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 10
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 Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| mhard1 wrote: |
| I had about a little less than a 2 month time frame to land a job or go home. I landed a job in Kanagawa (...) This time I had about 1-2 months, and again around 200,000 yen to stretch. Found a job in about 1.5 months, using the method I outlined in page 1 of 2. |
Thanks mhard1 for your response. I have a (possibly stupid) question though: even if you landed a job, say on average in 1.5 months time when you have 2 months' money to stretch, how did you make it to the end of 2nd month since work commencement?
As I understand, Japanese schools pay at the end of the 2nd month. So say I reach Japan on 1st July, and have cash to last till end of August. Assuming I found a job in mid August and can start from September, that still means I haven't got money to spend from 1st September till the payday (say 20th of October).
So how does one survive during those 2 months? Just wondering. (I'm assuming most of us job seekers ain't got Japanese friends to borrow money from or rely on.) |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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anthonyteo,
That is a risk people take. Some employers are generous enough to offer a loan, but you have to pay it back in the next few paychecks, so your monthly salary then will be lower until it's paid off.
If you don't want to go this route, someone else will have to transfer money to you.
Personally, I wouldn't want to be indebted to anyone for a job, housing, and extra money all at once. |
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Apsara
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 2142
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| Basically the answer to this is to bring more money. 200,000 yen probably isn't enough to last 3.5-4 months, so aim for more than than or you will have a miserable first few months in Japan. |
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anthonyteo
Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:40 am Post subject: |
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This is SCARY.
An interviewer told me that the visa application process takes 3 months - not sure if that's a definite, but it that were true, and assuming I fly to Japan to look for a job:
1st July: arrival
Mid August: confirmed job
September to November: wait for Visa processing
1st December: start work
20th January: get first pay
That means I need to prepare 7 whole months of living expenses! This is crazy. Somebody please tell me I'm wrong here... |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:47 am Post subject: |
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Yes, that is a possible scenario.
A more likely one is to get hired by midAugust, apply for the visa, and work with only the application stamp in your passport until the visa arrives. You might get lower pay at that time, but you get paid.
90 days is a bit steep for a visa. Average processing time is more like 4-8 weeks. If that employer really, truly, honestly had most of his applicants take that long, then he is either not a good risk himself to work for, or he has hired nothing but high-risk candidates. |
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Apsara
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 2142
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| 3 months would be the absolute outside, a worst-case scenario basically. As Glenski says 6 weeks is closer to the average, and people do work after they have applied and while they are waiting for the visa to come through. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Apsara wrote: |
| As Glenski says 6 weeks is closer to the average, and people do work after they have applied and while they are waiting for the visa to come through. |
I forgot to add that you shouldn't expect immigration to say this is ok. You'll probably just get a bunch of heads tilting and air sucking through their teeth.
Unless you have a reason so suspect that your visa will probably not be issued, it's probably safe to do the work. I would still caution against doing this with an employer with an iffy track record or less than stellar first impression. |
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maximmm
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| anthonyteo wrote: |
This is SCARY.
An interviewer told me that the visa application process takes 3 months - not sure if that's a definite, but it that were true, and assuming I fly to Japan to look for a job:
1st July: arrival
Mid August: confirmed job
September to November: wait for Visa processing
1st December: start work
20th January: get first pay
That means I need to prepare 7 whole months of living expenses! This is crazy. Somebody please tell me I'm wrong here... |
And then start working at a crappy job that pays 220K yen a month (seems rather common these days) with crappy hours and an unpaid or only partially paid vacation.
Welcome to teaching paradise:)
If you don't want to experience that sort of paradise, try to land job from abroad with one of the big companies. |
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anthonyteo
Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:14 am Post subject: |
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Thanks everyone for your reply.
| Glenski wrote: |
| 90 days is a bit steep for a visa. Average processing time is more like 4-8 weeks. If that employer really, truly, honestly had most of his applicants take that long, then he is either not a good risk himself to work for, or he has hired nothing but high-risk candidates. |
I'm not quite sure what you mean by high risk (be it employer or employee). Do u mean employees have suspicious background back at home or employers have bad employment track record? I'm just thinking, a new school might also run into that kind of thing, perhaps because the authorities want to be careful with them.
| Glenski wrote: |
| I would still caution against doing this with an employer with an iffy track record or less than stellar first impression. |
You're not saying it's illegal is it? I was rather relieved when both Glenski and Apsara said people work while waiting for visa to be issued though. But if this practice is not illegal, then could the kind of employer matter?
| maximm wrote: |
| And then start working at a crappy job that pays 220K yen a month (seems rather common these days) with crappy hours and an unpaid or only partially paid vacation. |
220K?Really?Most of the jobs I see online offer around 250K though.
| maximm wrote: |
| (...)try to land job from abroad with one of the big companies. |
I understand what you mean, but competition there is typically very stiff. Anyway I'm working for a Korean school now, a small sized one, and frankly, they don't treat employees that well, so I'm kind of used to it. More importantly, I think that if smaller employers were willing to take the effort and risk to employ and sponsor me, then I guess (at least for a year) I'm willing to work hard in return. |
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mhard1
Joined: 09 Dec 2009
Posts: 54
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:14 am Post subject: |
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Hey
yes my case was probably a slight exception since I had a friends place I was staying at when I first came from korea. IF you consider that, which probably saved me about 100,000 yen, then my total capital was probably closer to 300,000 yen starting out.
Also, as Glenski mentioned, some employers are willing to front you some capital to make it through those first lean months. I borrowed another 50,000 in my first month before I started getting regular paychecks. It was not until about 5 months in that I made above living from check to check and actually started saving money.
That being said, my main point was to illustrate that with a little bit of luck, and a lot of drive and determination, you can achieve your goal of finding work in Japan in that short period of time.
By all means, do as much contacting as you can with companies from Korea. From there you can lay the groundwork and set up as many interviews. From there, just take the leap of faith and make it happen.
Good luck. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| anthonyteo wrote: |
| Glenski wrote: |
| 90 days is a bit steep for a visa. Average processing time is more like 4-8 weeks. If that employer really, truly, honestly had most of his applicants take that long, then he is either not a good risk himself to work for, or he has hired nothing but high-risk candidates. |
I'm not quite sure what you mean by high risk (be it employer or employee). Do u mean employees have suspicious background back at home or employers have bad employment track record? I'm just thinking, a new school might also run into that kind of thing, perhaps because the authorities want to be careful with them. |
A "high risk employer" in my definition here is one that has a bad record with immigration, whether for previous infractions or just because they don't have what appears to be a good chance of maintaining a business.
Visa processing can take a long time for the employees, too, because they are "high risk". By that I mean their nationality may not be easily acceptable by immigration, or their qualifications are shady.
| Quote: |
| Glenski wrote: |
| I would still caution against doing this with an employer with an iffy track record or less than stellar first impression. |
You're not saying it's illegal is it? I was rather relieved when both Glenski and Apsara said people work while waiting for visa to be issued though. But if this practice is not illegal, then could the kind of employer matter? |
People probably shouldn't do it, because if they are caught by immigration, they might be in trouble. In reality, however, as I wrote, most of the time you can expect the average qualifications to pass muster in the visa process, so there is no real worries about getting it. Just be discreet.
| anthonyteo wrote: |
| 220K?Really?Most of the jobs I see online offer around 250K though. |
The average salary across the country has fallen from what used to be a long-standing 250K to around 220K. Depends on the locale and standard of living therein, of course. Trust me (and maximm), plenty of jobs are being offered even in places like Tokyo for measly wages.
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| maximm wrote: |
| (...)try to land job from abroad with one of the big companies. |
I understand what you mean, but competition there is typically very stiff.
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Competition is tough everywhere. At least if you try to get a job with a company that recruits from overseas, you don't have to spend the same amount of money setting yourself up just to do interviews.
| Quote: |
| More importantly, I think that if smaller employers were willing to take the effort and risk to employ and sponsor me, then I guess (at least for a year) I'm willing to work hard in return. |
You and a zillion others say the same thing. Problem is, how can a small employer interview you except through Skype? They don't have the deep pockets the bigger ones have, and even with a Skype interview, both sides lose so much in the process. Want a smaller employer? Come here personally and look around, but pay for it! |
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| anthonyteo wrote: |
| You're not saying it's illegal is it? I was rather relieved when both Glenski and Apsara said people work while waiting for visa to be issued though. But if this practice is not illegal, then could the kind of employer matter? |
Oh, it can. There are some very unscrupulous employers out there. If you are going to take this route and work whilst your visa is being processed then you need to make absolute certain that they do in fact put in your application. Otherwise, if they find somebody else they'd rather employ or decide they don't like you after you start they can drop you without any notice (or pay in lieu of), screw you out of any money that they owe and you'll likely have to use that return/onward flight (that you'll most likely need in order to get in without a work visa) to leave the country unless you can find another employer to sponsor and get you your visa within however much time you have left on you tourist stay.
There was a poster not too long ago who came on here just before their WHV was about to expire and was concerned that they hadn't received word about their visa app despite the employer reassuring them that it was in the works. Their situation was slightly different to yours but you might find it an interesting read if somebody can find it and put up a link.
If you have any doubt about the character of the employer don't run the risk of working for them without a visa in hand. |
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Bread
Joined: 24 May 2009
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| seklarwia wrote: |
There was a poster not too long ago who came on here just before their WHV was about to expire and was concerned that they hadn't received word about their visa app despite the employer reassuring them that it was in the works. Their situation was slightly different to yours but you might find it an interesting read if somebody can find it and put up a link. |
I think this was it, two-part thing:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=79581
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=79685 |
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anthonyteo
Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:34 am Post subject: |
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| seklarwia wrote: |
| There are some very unscrupulous employers out there. If you are going to take this route and work whilst your visa is being processed then you need to make absolute certain that they do in fact put in your application. Otherwise, if they find somebody else they'd rather employ or decide they don't like you after you start they can drop you without any notice (or pay in lieu of), screw you out of any money that they owe(...)If you have any doubt about the character of the employer don't run the risk of working for them without a visa in hand. |
Oh no. That sounds like the worst scenario to happen to a guy new in a foreign land. And how is one suppose to know if the employer is of suspicious character? Really, I've had employers who seem totally open and broad minded, but after you become their employees they screw you up like you're their personal property. This is looking bleak, sigh. But still, a little research should preempt that.
| Glenski wrote: |
| In reality, however, as I wrote, most of the time you can expect the average qualifications to pass muster in the visa process, so there is no real worries about getting it. |
I kind of get the picture now. Working without visa is not exactly a right thing, because you can't be sure if your visa gets approved after all. On the other hand, most of the time, it should get approval. In the end, what one should most worry about is probably the unscrupulous employers seklarwia was talking about.
| Glenski wrote: |
| Competition is tough everywhere. At least if you try to get a job with a company that recruits from overseas, you don't have to spend the same amount of money setting yourself up just to do interviews.(...)Want a smaller employer? Come here personally and look around, but pay for it! |
Of course, I'm not saying that I'm giving up on big companies or anything. I mean, they're obviously the most credible and reliable, provide the most benefits, and cost the least. It's just that there're only that many big companies, and I saw no reason to deny myself a chance to work with smaller schools if the opportunity should arise. That being said, after hearing seklarwia's advice, I'm getting very wary of getting a job with smaller employees, what with the risks and set up costs involved.
Thanks mhard1 for your encouragement. Things are looking real bleak here, but I suppose it's a case of nothing ventured, nothing gain? Ain't giving up just like that, no way. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| anthonyteo wrote: |
| seklarwia wrote: |
| There are some very unscrupulous employers out there. If you are going to take this route and work whilst your visa is being processed then you need to make absolute certain that they do in fact put in your application. Otherwise, if they find somebody else they'd rather employ or decide they don't like you after you start they can drop you without any notice (or pay in lieu of), screw you out of any money that they owe(...)If you have any doubt about the character of the employer don't run the risk of working for them without a visa in hand. |
Oh no. That sounds like the worst scenario to happen to a guy new in a foreign land. And how is one suppose to know if the employer is of suspicious character? |
Oh, c'mon. You can have some common sense suspicions!
They have a contract with huge clauses in complex legalese.
They don't answer direct questions with direct answers.
They give conflicting answers, whether from the same person at different times or with different people.
Things like that.
| anthonyteo wrote: |
| In the end, what one should most worry about is probably the unscrupulous employers seklarwia was talking about. |
Yes, and a big hint is that they want you to come over immediately and sort out the visa later. That could be due to legitimate reasons, or not.
Another huge red flag is constant stories of "delays" or "mistakes" in the visa process, which cause you to remain on hold yet working for them. In these instances, you need to take charge and contact immigration directly before your tourist status runs out.
| anthonyteo wrote: |
| Of course, I'm not saying that I'm giving up on big companies or anything. I mean, they're obviously the most credible and reliable, provide the most benefits, and cost the least. It's just that there're only that many big companies, and I saw no reason to deny myself a chance to work with smaller schools if the opportunity should arise. |
This is what I've been trying to tell people for over a decade:
1. Stay home if you don't have the money to support yourself here for 3-4 months. Accept the fact that you will have fewer opportunities to choose from.
2. Come here and have far more opportunities to find jobs and network and learn the lay of the land, but you will have to pay for it.
There is no third option unless you are in another country, and if that is the case, it depends on whether it's a native English speaking one or not. If so, the situation is like #1 above. If not, you have even fewer chances of getting hired from there. |
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