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evolving81
Joined: 04 May 2009
Posts: 135
Location: Tampa
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 Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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In any event, I don't want to take a job with a base salary of 4000 RMB. I did read a few posts about private lessons though, which honestly never occurred to me! How is that for a naive teacher?  |
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El Macho
Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 200
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: Why are all the salaries in China so low? |
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| The Ever-changing Cleric wrote: |
I always find these comparisons interesting. let's have a look at the standard esl jobs in the two countries:
A. Working Hours/Salary
typical university esl job in china:
�
typical hagwon job in korea: |
You should either compare two uni jobs or two hakwon jobs. A standard hakwon-type job in China has all of the drawbacks of hakwon jobs in Korea.
Having worked in both Korea and China, I think Korea is generally a much better place to work, especially for teachers with qualifications. What your post may have intended to get at is that China offers better opportunities for people with lesser qualifications (e.g. you can teach in a university with or without a BA while Korean universities now want an MA and uni experience). |
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evolving81
Joined: 04 May 2009
Posts: 135
Location: Tampa
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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Ugh, just when I was getting excited about teaching in China...
Actually, I will have the MA but not the experience so comparing a Chinese university job (which I can obtain) with a Korean university job (which I can't) doesn't do me any good. But I do see your point. Apples & oranges, etc.
It just seems like the best choice is to teach at a Chinese university, get some experience, teach some private lessons for some extra cash, and work my way up. |
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El Macho
Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 200
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| evolving81 wrote: |
| It just seems like the best choice is to teach at a Chinese university, get some experience, teach some private lessons for some extra cash, and work my way up. |
I agree with you 100% on this. I think China can be a great place for developing the teaching CV, especially since there's such a shortage of qualified/professional teachers.
With an MA I've been able to land a uni gig in Beijing that I'm happy with. I almost certainly wouldn't have been hired into a comparable position in Seoul. I'd much rather be in Seoul, and at least in the short-term I'd probably earn more there, but the opportunity in China is too good to pass up in terms of career building. |
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evolving81
Joined: 04 May 2009
Posts: 135
Location: Tampa
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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El Macho: Are you able to pay student loans while working at a Chinese university? Assuming you have any student loans...that's something that concerns me. Now I just need a decent job offer. Do most universities in China start in September? Or end of August?
Thanks! |
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markcmc
Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 262
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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The pay is so low because the pay for the Chinese is so low.
Also, because of supply/demand. There's an endless supply of teachers prepared to work in China.
None of this means you shouldn't work in China, it can be a good experience, but if you are thinking about a job here as a means to earn a lot of money - then think again. |
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The Ever-changing Cleric
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 1523
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:05 am Post subject: Re: Why are all the salaries in China so low? |
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| El Macho wrote: |
| The Ever-changing Cleric wrote: |
I always find these comparisons interesting. let's have a look at the standard esl jobs in the two countries:
A. Working Hours/Salary
typical university esl job in china:
�
typical hagwon job in korea: |
You should either compare two uni jobs or two hakwon jobs. A standard hakwon-type job in China has all of the drawbacks of hakwon jobs in Korea. |
a fair point, but the main thrust of my post was to simply point out that the salaries aren't as low in China as some people (read the two completely misguided quotes included in my first post on this thread) want others to believe, and that's really what the thread is about.
Since most esl teachers in korea seem to work in hakwons and most esl teachers in China seem to work in universities, i made the comparison i did. I veered off path a bit with the other points I made however. |
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singletonbp
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:41 am Post subject: |
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I can fully appreciate that you're able to live well on these salaries within the country, but aren't most English teachers only there for short terms anyway (1-2 years). How well off do these jobs leave you when you decide to return home?
With this kind of salary, it seems like you can only really benefit in the long term if you settle down in China permanently. Is there any truth in that? |
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Zero
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 1402
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Not really. If you settled permanently, you would still need more. You'd want to buy a house/condo, and they aren't cheap. And you might want a car, also not cheap. And since health coverage is sketchy, you might want to have a pretty good-sized bank account for emergencies. (At least then you could pay up-front if needed and get reimbursed later.) The low end of FT salaries isn't going to cut it for any of that. Chinese people can appear to get by on less because their families can kick in money or home equity at key times, and because a lot of the time their total income is greater than their stated salary would make it appear. They also tend not to pay taxes. Low-end FT salaries are really only good if you are young and itinerant or if you are older and have savings or a pension check. |
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kukiv
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 328
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Low-end FT salaries are really only good if you are young and itinerant or if you are older and have savings or a pension check. |
The myth of Cheap China needs to be exploded - China may be cheap for a holiday or short-term living - but as a place to set down roots and establish a secure, comfortable ex-pat lifestyle - on the wages most Chinese employers offer, you ain't going to get too far!!!!!!!! |
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kukiv
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 328
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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Company Capacity : Property Service Company Ltd
Company Location: Chengdu City
Company Profile:
This is a well know Property Service Company now is looking for part � time Door man
Job title: Door man wanted ( You need to be a Native One of European Language Speaker)
1.You need to be 1.76 meters tall or above
2.Compensation: 5000 yuan per month for full time. Or 2500 yuan for Part � time Students are encouraged to apply.
3. 40 hours per week 9am � 6 pm Monday to Friday 1 hour lunch this is full time.
Working hours for Part- time is negotiable
Person specification
You must be able to speak one of European Language
Starting date: Mid July 2010
Duration: 6 to 12 month |
5000RMB for being an English speaking doorman - hours are a wee bit long but certainly shows how low FT wage levels have sunk in the new China!!!!!!! |
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Mydnight
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 2892
Location: Guangdong, Dongguan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:23 am Post subject: |
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Without looking at the other responses, and accidently clicking on the 'job discussion only forum' instead of my usual stomping ground the 'off topic area', I can say without a doubt the pay here is so low because people accept the jobs. I can understand for your first job in China, getting rooked into one of those 4000-6000, 20-lesson a week deals but for those that keep resigning the contract, it makes it bad for all the rest of us.
Fact: The school you work for CAN AFFORD to pay you more money. Look at the headmaster's car. He didn't get that because the school is poor.
Fact: Everything is subject to negotiation in this country. If you convince them of your worth, that is if you have a real teaching gig and you aren't just a big sock puppet, you could possibly get more cash.
Fact: Probably about 70 percent of all FTs take private students regardless to any ridiculous clause in whatever contract was signed. The company/school you work for could care less about you moonlighting, and wouldn't really bother to search you out for doing it.
Fact: There will always be an influx of cheap, just off the boat foreigners that have no idea how to secure a job in this country. They WILL take the low paying jobs. They WILL make mistakes. You shouldn't be competing with them for these jobs if you have been here for more than a year or so.
Anyway, spread the word. As soon as everyone realizes they are being exploited by getting 4500 a month, such jobs will disappear and the pay will increase. |
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platinum peyote
Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Posts: 149
Location: Nanjing, near the bus stop
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| Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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My buddy got a job working in Changzhou, 2 hours a day, Mon-Fri, teaching stuff like Ray Bradbury and Edgar Allen Poe to high level middle schoolers, free accommodation, bills paid, 10 000 a month in cash.
After that he found an editing job (which he said was incredibly easy), free 3 bedroom apartment thrown in the deal, 8 000 a month, only problem being that it was in Taiyuan, which is a horrendous city.
There are good jobs in China, it's better to be in China when you look for them though. |
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Zero
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 1402
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| Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Anyway, spread the word. As soon as everyone realizes they are being exploited by getting 4500 a month, such jobs will disappear and the pay will increase. |
Not true. Not even consistent with the other part of your post, stating that fresh-off-the-boaters WILL take these positions.
Basic supply and demand prevail. You're suggesting cutting off the supply of cheap labor. It can't happen, because said supply wants those jobs and is willing to work for the wages offered. How do I know? Because they're working in the jobs right now. The labor force in question does not have advanced degrees or unique skills, and probably has few job options in its home country. It won't suddenly decide to stay home and watch 'Lost' instead of coming to China for the 5k/month.
The schools would pay higher if they were aiming for better-qualified people, which they aren't, or if they wanted to retain people year after year, which most don't.
It matters not at all what car the boss drives or whether the school can "afford" to pay higher wages. Look at executive salaries at Wal-Mart. They could "afford" to pay cashiers a lot more. They don't have to, and they won't. |
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mrwslee003
Joined: 14 Nov 2009
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:18 am Post subject: amount of pay |
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Have all working conditions and monthly pay in writing before
agreeing to take the job.
Don't complain about the pay after you've agreed to it. Isn't that just
common sense? |
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