Job Discussion Forums

yaramaz · Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 7:00 pm Post subject:

dmb, I was being ever so cok cok cok facetious! Honestly, I have spent months defending Turkey and its people against ghosts dismissals and condemnations. I see the same patterns emerging in his journeys through SE Asia. I hope he does find his home, his place, his country.. but I'm not so sure he will. He is seeking something very specific, I think, and I dont think that everyday people living everyday lives can provide this. I think a lot of his needs are internal, mental, psychological. People who are bored too easily often dont have the inner resources to find stimuli in less than perfect unstimulating environments.

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

Very true yaramaz. I am also a defender of Turkey. Speaking, as one who left Turkey, you become even more of a Turkophile when you leave. I think Ghost is also finding this out. I think the difference between Ghost and myself is that when I left Turkey I knew that I was returning.
29 workings days until I return( not that I am counting or anything)

Do you think we'll soon see a post from Ghost admitting that Turkey wasn't that bad after all?

ghost · Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 1693 Location: Saudi Arabia

DMB and Yaramaz - if one were to choose between Turkey and Vietnam, one would choose Turkey. Turkey, and the Turks in general, share values which are closer to the ones one has, in comparison with the values shared by most in South East Asia.

There is a lack of communication with the people in Asia that is hard to bridge. The Turks are annoying, but at least there is some semblance of communication.

The reason for posting on the Turkey site, is that one is comparing the different countries in South East Asia (Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and Laos) with Turkey, which happened to be the last teaching venue for this poster (total of 6 months spent in Turkey).

Yaramaz is correct in stating that people create their own happiness or misery, and those are things which are difficult to change. Just hopping on a plane for 12 hours and going half way round the world will not change a person...unless some miraculous conditions take over. Credit to Yaramaz and others for having the fortitude to put up with the oftentimes difficult and frustrating conditions in the Ottaman land. The rewards are greater than the downside for those people.

The students in Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand etc...are more docile and more pleasant to deal with (in class) than a comparable group of Turks (on average), but the boredom factor in South East Asia and the cultural divide make it difficult for most individuals to put down roots here for any length of time.

An aversion to chaotic motorbike traffic (ubiquitous in South East Asia) does not help, and those are conditions one has to face day after day.
Poster has a whistle to get around the streets in order to lessen the aggressive driving conditions of some of these motorbike thugs.

On the plus side the food is delicious and cheap in these parts. A delicious bowl of noodles with veg. can be had for around 0.50 cents.

This will not be a part of the world to stay in.

daveryan · Joined: 20 Aug 2003 Posts: 40

I am getting a trifle concerned that 'one' might have been smoking too much of the 'funny stuff', and that 'one' has lost the plot. But that said, 'one' does manage to bring some small cheer to my damp, London existence. Perhaps 'one' could consider publishing these missives, as a working title I suggestInsane Ramblings on the inadequacies of foreigners......Does anyone else have any suggestions?

But in the meanwhile, I hope all goes well for 'one' in Vietnam. As a tip though I would suggest that massage parlour touts are best avoided......and cut down on the 'funny stuff'.

Dave

isa · Joined: 31 Oct 2003 Posts: 6

ghost, you mentioned that you enjoyed teaching in the philippines, and can speak some tagalog. since you're in southeast asia anyway, why don't you consider looking for a teaching position there?

good luck in your search for happiness. Very Happy

ghost · Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 1693 Location: Saudi Arabia

One never taught in the Philippines. Just spent two months there in 1999. Did a crash course in Tagalog in Santa Cruz, Laguna, and travelled.

It is basically impossible to teach English in the Philippines, because English is the de facto language of education, the government, the media, the press and everything of an official nature in the Philippines. 99% of Philippinos are fluent in English (albeit with that charming accent of theirs) and they do not need native English speakers as they are basic native speakers themselves. They (Philippinos) all speak Tagalog, and most also speak a regional dialect if they are from outside the Metro Manila area.

The Philippine labour laws are very protectionist for their own, so it is very difficult (read impossible) to obtain employment in the "Friendly Isles."

Poster is now in Hanoi (North Vietnam) but will soon leave this country for (hopefully) more pleasant pastures in Laos. The Lao visa is expensive ($45 for a 30 day stay) but the country itself is cheap, interesting and laid back, or at least that is what all the travellers say.

After Laos it will be back to Cambodia and Thailand, with the possibility of a 30-60 hour crash course in Thai language in Chiang Mai (Thailand).

Scheduled to fly back to Barcelona (Spain) on April 19, via London. That will probably be the last of South East Asia for this poster. However, one wishes to explore India, Sri Lanka and Indonesia on other occasions. Those countries should offer a contrasted picture to the one here in the South East area.

One has to recognize, in the final analysis, that Turkey is not such a bad gig, but it depends on luck, because some schools are better than others. It seems that teaching older "working people" in Turkey is better than teaching school and University age students, because the latter are usually far less motivated than the former.

Student motivation is one of the biggest factors in teaching. The last experience this poster had in Eskisehir was not a happy one, because the University of Anadolou students were immature and somewhat lazy, and they had a tendency to complain about all the foreign staff. Staff turnover at that place was high, and morale low.

Otterman Ollie · Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:03 am Post subject: The return of Ghost

Hi Ghost

Perhaps after all your running around and running down you have by your own admission discovered that Turkey isnnt such a bad gig, you may return and with your new found perspectives and enlightenment make a better job of what you did before ,second time round . Unless you have better offers elsewhere ,face it ghost, this is as good a country to succeed in as anywhere.
Try a diferent city there are plenty to choose from and most people on this forum would prefer to see you come through the other side on top .

yaramaz · Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:32 am Post subject:

The Otterman is correct in his assessment--- sometimes you just need a little perspective. Turkey is far from perfect, but it does get easier with time. Time builds friends, familiarity, community... Kayseri is not an easy city but I know it, I understand it, I can live in it.

Also, your job is a huge factor: last year I was miserable in the primary school. I dont really like orking with little kids, esp. en masse. However, this year I am really happy in the lise. Although I had a rough wnter, my job was never one of the negative factors (except maybe some of the horrific Lise 1 boys, vile sons of the mafia and dumb as a roomful of hair).

I am still trying to figure out what to do next year but I know I will be n Turkey. Now that Spring has sprung, it is a mighty fine place to be...

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

Ah yaramaz you've made my mind go a wandering. Spring is the best time of year to be in Turkey, especially Istanbul

FGT · Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 762 Location: Turkey

dmb - Why especially in Istanbul? Izmir does a good spring, so does Bodrum and as for Corum....!

Mike_2003 · Joined: 27 Mar 2003 Posts: 344 Location: Bucharest, Romania

Spring's the best time of the year to be anywhere! Cool

ghost · Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 1693 Location: Saudi Arabia

Ottoman Ollie is correct in stating that Turkey is not such a bad gig, especially when you compare teaching there (Turkey) with the other places in the world.

In South East Asia, foreigners really stick out like sore thumbs, and even if you teach here, you still get treated like a dumb tourist everywhere you go, and that gets tired fast....

Poster is now in Hanoi, North Vietnam, and was immediately offered work (after a 3 minute "interview") at the following place.

London Education Centre, 18 Hang Quat. Tel: 8 26 05 17. Hanoi. Vietnam.
<[email protected]> www.london.edu.vn

The basic pay is $8-$10 per 1.5 hour lesson. Poster has no intention of living and working in Vietnam, but if anyone on this forum wants a dramatic change of scenery, you will get the job at the London Education Centre in Hanoi. One of the 'English Teachers' there is Sebastian, from France, who stays because married to a Viet.

To get back to Turkey....in retrospect, if one is lucky enough in finding the right job, and the students gel, then, yes, it can be a decent gig.

One needs the perspective of having been elsewhere to realize that nowhere is perfect, and Turkey is not such a bad place. One wanted to teach in Spain, but startup costs (getting a flat etc...) were horrific, and for the pay (around 800 euros/month) it just would not have made economic sense to teach there.

Poster visited Czech Republic and Romania, but pay and conditions there are not as good as Turkiye.

Tonight, an exhausting 24 hours bus ride is on the schedule from Hanoi (North Vietnam) to Vientiane, Laos (the capital). Enough of Vietnam...

A couple of days later you will receive the lowdown on teaching in Laos as compared with Turkey.

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

FGT, I agree other parts of Turkey are great in spring(indeed at the end of April I think I will be heading south to Gumusluk for a short break) But Istanbul because it is what I know best. There is always loads going on. Also like anywhere because of the people. Most of my friends are in Istanbul, so doing things with them make it more enjoyable

Otterman Ollie · Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 11:11 am Post subject:

Hi
Yeah in spring Bodrum is a joy ,no tourists and the locals give you more than a passing glance ,never heard of Corum though ,give us a clue FGT where is it near some undiscovered piece of coastline perhaps .

FGT · Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 762 Location: Turkey

Corum isn't on the coast, it's east of Ankara, about 4 hours on the bus as far as I recall. It's main claim to fame (apart from producing chick peas by the tonne) is that it's the home of Bogazkale (Hattusas - the capital of the Hittite empire). I went there some years back when Korban Bayrami fell in early May and it was BEAUTIFUL - lush, green, mountainous. Eagles flying overhead, streams of fresh, cold water. Carpets of grape hyacinths etc. I also went there one August which was also good but spring is better. Yazilikaya and Alacahuyuk are also historical sites nearby well worth a visit. My one regret is falling in one of the FRESH streams with my Minolta camera - farewell old friend!