Job Discussion Forums

[Phil_K]

It may be a complete sentence, but it is a shorter way to something that can be said in a longer way, with exactly the same meaning.

[johnslat]

Dear Phil_K,

I'm sorry - I'm missing your point. What difference does that make?

Regards,
John

[Sashadroogie]

Nice theory Phil_K, but I'm not sure it's watertight. What about 'It started to snow' & 'It started snowing'. No difference in meaning there, and can we really say which action comes first?

[Phil_K]

We are talking about sentences such as:

He enjoys traveling, he hates getting up early

or

He hopes to succeed, He wishes to speak.

"He stops to smoke" doesn't come into this category, as it implies that he completes one action in order to do another, whereas in the previous sentences the two verbs (in whichever form) strictly follow each other. It is a different point of grammar.

I really can't explain it any clearer than that.

[Phil_K]

[Sashadroogie]

I think that it was not a bad stab at it at all. Just rules aren't rules if they aren't formulated to cover 100%.

[Phil_K]

[Sashadroogie]

There are some: adjectives don't have a plural form. Don't change form at all, in truth.

[AGoodStory]

[johnslat]

Dear Phil_K.

What we're discussing here in verbs that take either gerunds or infinitives after them.

Some take gerunds but not infinitives: He enjoys smoking.

Some take infinitive but not gerunds: He wants to smoke

Some can take either and the meaning stays the same: He likes smoking; He likes to smoke.

A few can take either, but the meaning changes: He remembered to call the doctor; he remembered calling the doctor. He stopped to smoke; He stopped smoking

"Stop Smoking or Stop to Smoke? (gerunds and infinitives)

Choose A or B.
-ing or to ...

The �ing form (gerund) functions like a noun and describes a general activity.
The to .. form (infinitive) is a verb and indicates a particular action.

When you remember something you have a picture in your mind of something (an object, a person, an activity) you saw or heard in the past.

When you remember to do something you keep an idea in your mind of an action you have to do in the future.

When you stop something (an object, a person, an activity) you stop something that already exists in the present.

When you stop to do something you stop (a present activity) in order to do an action in the future."

http://eolf.univ-fcomte.fr/uploads/ressources/grammar/15_verbs/ingvsto/ingvsto.htm

"3. (a) He stopped to smoke a cigarette
UNDERLINED GRAMMATICAL STRUCTURE = VERB
(b) He stopped smoking cigarettes
UNDERLINED GRAMMATICAL STRUCTURE = NOUN

DIFFERENCE IN MEANING = CHANGING THE VERB INTO A NOUN BY ADDING .ING MAKES THE SENTENCE CHANGE FROM EXPLAINING SOMETHING WHICH HE CURRENTLY DOES DO INTO SOMETHING WHICH HE NO LONGER DOES."

http://www.usingenglish.com/forum/ask-teacher/106472-identifying-grammatical-structure.html

Regards,
John

[Phil_K]

You're going round in circles, Johnslat - I'm outta here!

[spiral78]

There are some: adjectives don't have a plural form. Don't change form at all, in truth.

Yeah, one of my biggest early hurdles with Czech, where adjective forms do change (true in Russky also, I think, Sasha?).

[Sashadroogie]

Oh, don't get me started! Three genders, plurals, more than plurals, feminines that also modify if in an describing a noun in the accusative. But not if that feminine noun in the accusative is an animate noun. Genitives thrown in there somewhere too, but that's about where I started studying the intricacies of vodka instead.

[spiral78]

Yeah, we've got 49 different possible noun forms in Czech, never mind all the other grammatical details....
As my Czech grammar book notes, the good news is that pronunciation is regular: if you can see it in print, you can say it correctly.

On to the Dutch vodka...sun has set, rain pouring down, time to consider the details of grammar in the correct voice and mode...

[Sashadroogie]

Thankfully vodka comes in many, many cases too. Time to get cracking!