Job Discussion Forums

[nolefan]

Coluche, a French comedian once said:

God is like sugar in a glass of hot milk; the more you look for it, the harder it is to find[/quote]

[tammy]

Like I said in an earlier post on this thread, it's hard even for a Muslim to understand Islam to it's full extent.
I have a friend whose father is a very religious man, and whenever I ask him questions about Islam, he always seems to answer them to my satisfaction. It just seems that no matter how many of my questions he answers, I always seem to go back with a new question after a few days. He's quite an old man and I'm sure it gives him pleasure to know that a young girl like me is so interested to learn more about her religion, especially since his own kids don't seem to show any interest.
There are many things written in the Quran that, I'm sure, we will both interpret differently. OK, so I accept that it is written, but I honestly can't think of one possible situation where a husband would raise his hand to his wife and I would accept that he was right. I can't think of a situation where a husband would hit his wife and, in the eyes of any God, he was right.
I understand that you have difficulty accepting why it is written. I've had similar conversations with many people in the past and have learnt to just agree to disagree.
Or maybe this is something I should go back to the old man about

[Wolf]

Well, I'm not a Muslim, but as a Baha'i I do believe in the divine station of Mohammed and the significance of His Manifestation.

[leeroy]

An articulate reply to the question asked yesterday on IslamOnline... "Are women inferior?"

[Teacher in Rome]

[johnslat]

Darn, I just can't stay away - it's like watching a slow-motion train wreck.
But I'll keep it brief. I'll quote G.K. Chesterton, who remarked about Christianity:

"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried." - Chapter 5, What's Wrong With The World, 1910

for Christian, simply substitute Islamic.

Regards,
John

[nolefan]

The concept of Islam leaves plenty of room within the rules for "ijtihad" which refers to looking over the religion and changing a few things to go with the times.
Unfortunately, most leaders are fearful of this and will not go there. One exception to the rule is king Mohamed 6 of Morocco that Changed the bill of women rights giving them similar status to that of men as far aas inheritance, divorce, marriage,....
Some might say that one should not need to do that but by the same token, it proves that religion can adapt to new times..we just have to give it a chance.

I think that keeping this debate about "beating women" is a rather narrow-minded way of dealing with such a topic.

[James_T_Kirk]

[nolefan]

Actually, Mac Os X is pretty much Unix nowdays.... I did not look at it from this angle but it could be....

the point I was trying to make was that an UPDATE is Overdue...

[sidjameson]

Teacher in Rome.
Yes I agree, reading my rather strong words they are a bit on the combustable side. Saying these things quite so strongly doesn't do much good even if there is something in what is said.
But I will defend my position. First though I am happy to accept that I could be wrong. I don't know anywhere near enough about the Koran(who does?) so feel free to enlighten me if I go wayward.
Is islam primitive? Well of course there are a lot of good teachings in the Koran, rules good for any society but there are plenty of things that most modern day thinkers would deem completely unacceptable. Wife beating being one of them. Now correct me if I am wrong but the cannons of Buddhism are also considered a significant religous teaching. Written 1000 years before the Koran I find it a very relevant piece, full of love and compassion. I'm no expert on that too but do you know of any equivilant passage that the Buddha taught that 21st century thinking would find so disagreeable? Not from a spiritual point of view, both works need "the leap of faith" but from a moral one. So for me Islam is primitive and not the "software upgrade" that has been posted elsewhere.
Are muslims a primitive people? Well, I think that you are choosing to give the word primitive a more negative meaning than it has. An Amazonian tribe untouched by western civilization is considered a primitve society. I know it's a judgment call, but if a society hasn't invented the wheel for a technoligical example or still believes in stoning unmarried mothers, a moral example, I would consider this to be a primitve society. This isn't a value judgement by the way. Economists use the term "a primitve market" to talk about a market that hasn't been developed yet. Ok I did use the word backward as I do feel that choosing a primitve intellectual stand point is, for me, a backward step. Wouldn't it be considered primitive if I believed that the cure for venerial desease was the placing of a leach on the old one eyed monster?(England in the dark-and painful ages) Wouldn't it also be considered a backward step if in the light of modern medicine I turned my back on penicilan and reached for one of the slimy critters?
But as I said, I always feel that my view can always be improved. Maybe I just misunderstand these things.

[yaramaz]

I live in Turkey, which is 99% muslim and is a secular state. It is not primitive. My co workers are not primitive. They are Muslim, but that does not mean they don't live in the modern world. They are educated, open minded, curious, loving, and, for the most part, kind. They have heard of the wheel. They know how to read. None of the women I am friends with wears a headscarf. In fact, most women here don't. I doubt that more of the men beat their wives here than in Canada (or wherever)... men beat their wives regardless of culture or faith. It's a power trip.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

[sidjameson]

Many agreeable points Yaramaz but the thing is they, being muslim, still believe in a God that(and I wanna be absolutely clear about this-Monty Python ) thinks that it is sometimes acceptable to beat a wife. This is IN the koran. Therfore I see islam as a primitive body of knowlege and somebody who (in 2004) chooses to believe in it as somebody who has embraced backward thinking.
Of course this isn't a judgement on a whole person. I've met many lovely muslims.

[yaramaz]

I think the Judeo-Christian god was rather keen on violence too. Smiting this and that and the other, and not sparing the rod and so forth.

Next topic?

Dang, Denise, if you are here I really need that Seabreeze from the Crimson room... sorry Capergirl, for mistaking you for a bartender. My bad.

And now for something completely different....

[Wolf]

Come see the violence inherent in the system! Come see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help! I'm being oppressed.

Which reminds me...

Aren't Christians supposed to belive in witches? Sounds rather backward to me.

Yamaraz, do you weigh the same as a duck?

I think we should start a thread on how to use sheep bladders to prevent earthquakes.

[sidjameson]

yes, but what have the muslims ever given us?
I guess we all know where this thread is going now.