Job Discussion Forums

[Modest Mouse]

[rupert shellgame]

I agree, this thread is full of negativity. Doesn't bother me a bit. It feels very...positive...for me to come to terms with my true feelings. I always try to behave in a forum as I would face to face, or in a social gathering. Be modest, mouse, and do the same. No need to call anyone an "idiot."

Studying Chinese doesn't entitle you to a "better understanding" of Taiwan. I'm about as "in" this place as I intend to be. Taiwanese girlfriend, a fair amount of Chinese myself. But language, the kind you study in linguistics classes, is only one kind of language. There is also the language of action, behavior, deed, the things you do. The language of driving, for example. You'd be hard up to convince me that learning Chinese inside and out is going to change my opinion about this place. Will I be reading a newspaper one day while munching on a 7/11 cheesedog, and stop mid-chew, eyes wide, and say: yes, yes, yes, now I understand. Taiwan is developing. Developing. Yes.

Into what, though? Another gem like the U.S.A.? Let's hope not. As if this so-called democracy was ever chosen by Taiwanese. As I recall, it was handed to them, and they took it like they take everything else. The Taiwanese are beloved in the world of international business. Unlike the French or the Russians, the Taiwanese will put in ten hours without complaining. These people are sheep, this place is a toilet.

Sometimes you can get further in life by being honest about what you don't like, what you despise, what makes you wanna puke. If that means a kind of greyness about a thread, so be it. This site offers you endless room to start your own. There you can extol all those beloved things about Taiwan, such as the fine architecture and inviting homes with rusted bars on the windows, or the public courtesy, or the slave cult-- I'm sure you've got you're own.

Here's a thread called "Ten Things You Love About Taiwan." I started it awhile back.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=80162

Might be a good place to start.

There are no other cafes. Not on this side of town. This isn't Paris or Portland, it's Taiwan.

[Modest Mouse]

Fair enough, but what is "the slave cult?"

[rupert shellgame]

I cut myself off. Slave culture. People who are perfectly willing to put in ten hours a day of almost nonstop work for six days a week, sometimes seven.

[Modest Mouse]

I wasn't calling you an idiot. I was just saying that it is stupid to judge Taiwan as a whole without getting to know the people first, but it takes learning the language to learn about the people.

Let me guess:
You studied Chinese for a semester, then dropped out.
You have a Taiwanese girlfriend, with whom you speak primarily in English, but you have few, if any, Taiwanese friends who are guys.

I'll leave now. Please continue to wallow in your own crapulance.

But keep in mind:

�Being happy doesn't mean that everything is perfect. It means that you've decided to look beyond the imperfections.�

[rupert shellgame]

[kotoko]

When you spoke at the start about being sick of all the robots and lifeless people, you could have replaced Taiwan for Japan and it'd still be true. I'm sick of lifeless robots and how people have no motivation or dreams here too.

[creztor]

I definitely agree about looking at things realistically. I personally think that people no longer want to hear anything other than happy, happy, joy, joy comments. As soon as you say anything to the contrary, you are labeled as a person who is fully of negativity and does nothing more than moan and complain all day.

[Dr_Zoidberg]

"Zoidberg," I said to myself, "if you ever become like him, promise that you will do yourself a favour and leave."

That was the promise I made to myself after reading the non-stop hate-spew of a very unhappy camper who, despite hating Taiwan with every fibre of his being, was still here.

I made that promise, and I kept it. In February 2008, after a little over 3 years in Taiwan, I left. I used the money I had saved to travel around the region for some months, and returned after a well-deserved break.

There comes a time when the expat living in Taiwan has to realize that it's time to go.

I'm not trying to be mean or start a flame war. I'm just saying recognize when it's time to take a break from Taiwan. And judging by your posts, Rupert, I'd say you're ready for one.

[rupert shellgame]

As I said earlier in the thread, I'm on my way out. I'm not rich enough to just uproot myself and go, and as I said, I have a girlfriend here. She also is ready to burst.

Even if I was going to stay because of money, girlfriend, whatever, why not talk about these things? The foreigner community is so aversive to realist discussion of Taiwan. If it's cuz you don't wanna rock the boat, say it. If it's cuz you don't wanna get in trouble, say it. If it's cuz you don't think these people can escape their cultural quagmire built of habits, say it. Me? I don't like to beat around the bush, don't like to sugar coat. I may be negative, but I am definitely not blind.

How many people would stay here if the money was bad? If the food and housing wasn't cheap? What does that say about Taiwan?

[Dr_Zoidberg]

I wasn't coming from the point of not wanting to rock the boat, etc. All those things you say are true, Lord knows I've said it all myself.

I'm amazed at the western relativists who can see no wrong in Taiwan nor anything the Taiwanese do, and always tell me to understand the culture. And yet I am no less amazed by those who have absolutely nothing good to say about Taiwan nor the Taiwanese but stay.

It was about knowing when you've had enough and need to get away. That's every six months to one year for me.

I've often likened living in Taiwan to the ocean crashing against a big rock. No matter how big or strong the rock is, the ocean will eventually wear it down.

[Shimokitazawa]

[rupert shellgame]

(to Dr. Z)

Yeah I see what you're saying. I am leaving as soon as feasible.

I do have many good things to say about Taiwan, earlier in this post. I think, for one thing, that the economy here is more "real." Particularly the food economy. Someone else said, maybe not in this forum, that they appreciate how Taiwanese aren't as aggressive. And yes, I do like the right side of the island. Who doesn't?

Someone said earlier that Taiwan offers no food, and I suppose it does come down to tastes. In this case I think relativism comes into play. I love the food here. Not all of it. But most of it. There are plenty of choices for me. It has also motivated me to learn to cook and bake, because I don't like how they do western food.

The driving issue...talk about divisive...I like to think of driving in Taiwan as more organic. Organic doesn't always mean pretty. Ok, so folks don't always obey the rules. But it has always surprised me how few accidents I see. I think if everyone driving a car in Chicago suddenly traded their cars for scooters, half the driving population would be dead or injured in the first hour.

[rupert shellgame]

[Modest Mouse]