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redsnapper
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 60
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 Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| 7168Riyadh wrote: |
@vorticity
ghost is right, if it's not mentioned on the certificate (and usually it's not) and if the employer wants you, shouldn't have a problem...
...but if only it were that simple. This regulation actually originates in the US, where you are supposed to spend 1/3 of your time in the campus attending classes for your degree to be recognized as a valid qualification to teach at a college. The regulation is designed to counter "degree mills" that basically hand out degrees in exchange for a fee, a prevalent practice in the US where the higher education system is very laissez-faire. It is the Saudi Committee (Council?) for Higher Education that has introduced this rule in Saudi to, as they see it, help maintain high standards 
...Now I earned my degree online through supported learning (it was a superb degree course, equal to any other MA), and went on to teach at a university in the kingdom. But I was hired by a recruiter. When I applied for a job at another university, they had sniffed my degree out as earned online, no doubt because one of my compatriots worked on their hiring team and had alerted the management--who needs enemies, eh.
There is no right answer here, of course, but you if you're hired through a recruiter you'll probably be okay. Otherwise, it may be tricky. |
Excellent points. If you already have an online degree then you may need to go this route. However, anyone considering doing an online degree should make sure that the majority of the program is traditional. Taking one course at the school and the rest of the program online won't cut it as being blended. |
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Sheikh N Bake
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 1307
Location: Dis ting of ours
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| 7168Riyadh wrote: |
@vorticity
This regulation actually originates in the US, where you are supposed to spend 1/3 of your time in the campus attending classes for your degree to be recognized as a valid qualification to teach at a college. The regulation is designed to counter "degree mills" that basically hand out degrees in exchange for a fee, a prevalent practice in the US where the higher education system is very laissez-faire. |
This is inaccurate and misleading. Non-Americans often are confused by the apparent lack of US government direct supervision of institutions of higher education. That's because the US has a federal system of government and the federal government does not involve itself in supervising the tertiary sector other than to stipulate the strings attached to government grants. (The individual states do have input into their state-owned institutions, of course, but not the type of broad control one sees in many other nations.)
In the US, a college/university is either accredited or it isn't. Regional associations consisting of scholars do the accrediting, not any government. If the institution is accredited, your degree is bona fide in the U.S. Diploma mill "degrees" are easily rooted out because the fictitious universities that "confer" them are not accredited. One need simply take five minutes to peruse a list of accredited universities such as http://www.ope.ed.gov/accreditation/ |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Taking one course at the school and the rest of the program online won't cut it as being blended |
By the US definition, perhaps. But for those of us with degrees from other countries, working in other countries, without any intent to work in the US - 'blended' can obviously be defined differently.
The UK MAs that have been accepted in Saudi (as mentioned by myself and Cleopatra) required less on-campus time than 30% - obviously the US standard is not applied worldwide. |
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redsnapper
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Taking one course at the school and the rest of the program online won't cut it as being blended |
By the US definition, perhaps. But for those of us with degrees from other countries, working in other countries, without any intent to work in the US - 'blended' can obviously be defined differently.
The UK MAs that have been accepted in Saudi (as mentioned by myself and Cleopatra) required less on-campus time than 30% - obviously the US standard is not applied worldwide. |
Blended doesn't mean disguised. Doing one class at the University and the rest online so you can somehow bypass the online degree label is dubious. Further, does someone want to invest thousands of dollars in doing a degree without knowing what the magic ratio of online classes to traditional classes the ratio would be in order for the degree to be accepted? At least with Russian Roulette there are 5 empty chambers.
| Sheikh N Bake wrote: |
| If the institution is accredited, your degree is bona fide in the U.S. Diploma mill "degrees" are easily rooted out because the fictitious universities that "confer" them are not accredited. One need simply take five minutes to peruse a list of accredited universities such as http://www.ope.ed.gov/accreditation/ |
Accreditation doesn't make a school reputable. University of Phoenix, University of La Verne, Chapman College and many others that offer online degrees and blended degrees are accredited, but all of these schools are not looked upon very favorably. Most of these institutions of higher learning will keep awarding units as long as the student is willing to keep writing checks.
There is a big difference between a traditional school taking advantage of using online classes for appropriate portions of its program compared with primarily online degree mills that are trying to dress themselves up as traditional schools. |
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Sheikh N Bake
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 1307
Location: Dis ting of ours
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| redsnapper wrote: |
| Sheikh N Bake wrote: |
| t;] If the institution is accredited, your degree is bona fide in the U.S. Diploma mill "degrees" are easily rooted out because the fictitious universities that "confer" them are not accredited. One need simply take five minutes to peruse a list of accredited universities such as http://www.ope.ed.gov/accreditation/ |
Accreditation doesn't make a school reputable. University of Phoenix, University of La Verne, Chapman College and many others that offer online degrees and blended degrees are accredited, but all of these schools are not looked upon very favorably. Most of these institutions of higher learning will keep awarding units as long as the student is willing to keep writing checks.
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I agree. If you look at Barron's Profiles, for example, you will see about 8 tiers of prestige, from "Most Competitive" (in admissions) to "Noncompetitive" (open admissions). Although admissions difficulty is not the arbiter of quality, Barron's admissions tiers do roughly correspond to the prestige and quality rankings which the academic community and society assign to the institutions. I have already told my son to avoid for-profit schools like the plague, even though some are accredited (they shouldn't be). A particularly egregious accredited, nonprofit one is bible thumper Jerry Falwell's Liberty University, where, sources say, their natural history museum labels dinosaur fossils as 5,000 years old! |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Blended doesn't mean disguised. Doing one class at the University and the rest online so you can somehow bypass the online degree label is dubious. |
First of all, who said it was one class?
Second, it's not a fraud.
It is simply that universities in different countries have different standards to the US.
As already stated, some blended MAs with less than the 'magic' ratio of 30% apparently applied by the US are indeed considered reputable and legally accepted in the Kingdom - and many other countries.
I've done considerable work abroad for students sponsored by the Saudi government (our creds were checked for acceptability). I've worked in international universities in Western Europe and Canada. I've got a blended MA from a reputable British university. It is legally recognised by Western European and Canadian universities. It's always been totally clear that it is a research-based distance degree with an on-campus component.
I'm only one case, but I'm entirely sure that I'm not alone in this.
However, again, the key is that it's a reputable university in the EFL/ESL field (top 10). No-one's ever asked exactly how much of it was on campus, and in fact that requirement was flexible. I took more time there, some took less. The degrees are equal. |
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redsnapper
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Blended doesn't mean disguised. Doing one class at the University and the rest online so you can somehow bypass the online degree label is dubious. |
First of all, who said it was one class?
Second, it's not a fraud.
It is simply that universities in different countries have different standards to the US.
As already stated, some blended MAs with less than the 'magic' ratio of 30% apparently applied by the US are indeed considered reputable and legally accepted in the Kingdom - and many other countries.
I've done considerable work abroad for students sponsored by the Saudi government (our creds were checked for acceptability). I've worked in international universities in Western Europe and Canada. I've got a blended MA from a reputable British university. It is legally recognised by Western European and Canadian universities. It's always been totally clear that it is a research-based distance degree with an on-campus component.
I'm only one case, but I'm entirely sure that I'm not alone in this.
However, again, the key is that it's a reputable university in the EFL/ESL field (top 10). No-one's ever asked exactly how much of it was on campus, and in fact that requirement was flexible. I took more time there, some took less. The degrees are equal. |
In Western Europe and Canada-possibly I don't know and frankly I don't care. What I do know is that in the United States your claim is absolutely incorrect. Anyone considering doing your type of blended degree should be aware that by making that choice they are writing off any future opportunities of being employed in Higher Education anywhere in the United States and/or other similar schools that are modeled after US higher ed institutions. I think as long as people are aware of that possibility BEFORE they waste thousands of dollars and years of their lives toward the blended degree that you champion, then if they want to do your 1 traditional class; 20 online class degree program that's great. That just means that you and your online friends will never be part of the applicant pool-faculty- at these schools.
| Sheikh N Bake wrote: |
| redsnapper wrote: |
| Sheikh N Bake wrote: |
| t;] If the institution is accredited, your degree is bona fide in the U.S. Diploma mill "degrees" are easily rooted out because the fictitious universities that "confer" them are not accredited. One need simply take five minutes to peruse a list of accredited universities such as http://www.ope.ed.gov/accreditation/ |
Accreditation doesn't make a school reputable. University of Phoenix, University of La Verne, Chapman College and many others that offer online degrees and blended degrees are accredited, but all of these schools are not looked upon very favorably. Most of these institutions of higher learning will keep awarding units as long as the student is willing to keep writing checks.
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I agree. If you look at Barron's Profiles, for example, you will see about 8 tiers of prestige, from "Most Competitive" (in admissions) to "Noncompetitive" (open admissions). Although admissions difficulty is not the arbiter of quality, Barron's admissions tiers do roughly correspond to the prestige and quality rankings which the academic community and society assign to the institutions. I have already told my son to avoid for-profit schools like the plague, even though some are accredited (they shouldn't be). A particularly egregious accredited, nonprofit one is bible thumper Jerry Falwell's Liberty University, where, sources say, their natural history museum labels dinosaur fossils as 5,000 years old! |
I am starting to think that Spiral78 has somehow spawned from Liberty University or Jerry Falwell's Regent University. He has all the "right" characteristics.
Last edited by redsnapper on Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:17 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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I think it's the fast-approaching wave of the very near future:
"The lines between traditional face-to-face teaching and traditional distance learning programmes are blurring and �blended learning�, combining virtual with face-to-face teaching, is the latest buzz phrase.
One of the biggest developments over the past year has been the launch of high quality � and expensive � blended degree programmes. Earlier this month Brown University in the US, one of just two Ivy League universities not to have a business school, launched an Executive MBA programme with Spain�s IE Business School.
Half of the EMBA � an �Executive MBA� for senior working managers � will be taught face-to-face, the other half online, says David Bach, dean of programmes at IE. He is an avid supporter of using asynchronous communications to improve quality of participation on these senior programmes.
�Everybody participates, even the shy people. You think twice as hard about writing something as you do about saying it in the classroom.� As a result, a 90-minute classroom exchange can become a three-day threaded discussion, he says.
The 15-month Brown programme will cost $95,000, more expensive than many full-time programmes, but Prof Bach defends the cost. �This is the Starbucks model, not the Walmart model. You don�t economise on faculty. Blended programmes are as expensive as on-campus programmes and they will become more expensive.�
Prof Bach believes people will be prepared to pay for the convenience of blended programmes. But other benefits to this technology include the ability of participants to select the way of studying that suits them.
Recognition that advanced technology can help students learn more effectively is spreading at the very top schools, those not usually associated with e-learning. And it is being regarded as enriching the on-campus experience.
At the Wharton school at the University of Pennsylvania, Karl Ulrich, vice-dean of the school�s innovation initiative, believes that blended learning � or connected learning as Wharton calls it � can respond better to different learning styles.
�You can provide different ways to deliver a module. Our current learning technology is one-size-fits-all. I think we can be more respectful of student�s learning styles,� he says.
But connected learning can also help the school extend its reach. �What I�d like to do is to have students in internships take courses over the summer. If you can separate time and place, we can get our people out into the world a bit more.�
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/53a0a23e-4b71-11e0-89d8-00144feab49a.html#axzz1GiGfCgDO
Regards,
John |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| In Western Europe and Canada-possibly I don't know and frankly I don't care. What I do know is that in the United States your claim is absolutely incorrect |
As this is not the North America forum, and people are not by definition here to find out what degree they might need to get university jobs in the US, I do not feel obliged in any way to care what the US standards are.
Again, the point here on the Saudi board is that some blended degrees (which may or may not meet US standards) ARE accepted in Saudi.
I have met Falwell and Robertson, by the way. I grew up, was educated, and worked for some years in the greater DC region. No, I did not attend a Christian university - or ever consider for one second doing so. The influence of these guys on US education and politics is one reason I have zero interest in living or working in the US ever again.
What a weird thread this has grown into. I thought we were discussing MAs that were accepted in Saudi. |
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redsnapper
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
I have zero interest in living or working in the US ever again.
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Finally. Something we can both agree upon!
MOD EDIT |
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