Job Discussion Forums

[eha]

[Sheikh N Bake]

[quote="Cleopatra"]

[007]

Indeed. You are usually regarded as nerdy little schoolma'am!

[johnslat]

I wonder if at least a part of the reason for that might be (gasp) envy/guilt. I mean most of us have MAs from universities in the US, GB, etc. whereas some/many of the "academic lectures" degrees are from places where getting such a degree often depends on how much you can afford.

"Would you like an MA or a PhD?"

"Hmm. I think I'll take the PhD. It's not that much more."

Regards,
John

[Bebsi]

I agree with Johnslat and Cleopatra. Notwithstanding what I said earlier, the fact remains that yes, in many academic departments also there are people with very questionable credentials and backgrounds, whose idea of teaching is to choose complex 600-page textbooks in English, 99% of which the students cannot remotely understand due to their lack of linguistic preparation.

Who gets blamed?

Yes, of course! The English teachers who are expected to get those same students from as low as beginner level in as little as a year. Maybe even less, perhaps just one semester if the student has wasta and/or a rich daddy, and thinks he is being done a favour by being fast-tracked into a class where he will not understand a thing.

So, how do many academics deal with the situation? They make copies, as John said, and then feed the contents to the student before the exam. Even if the student still fails the exam, he will be pushed up anyway by a corrupt management. Very often, even totally honest and professional academics are forced by management to push the student through.

Much of the root cause is cultural: there is still a strong sense that if a student fails, he will be humiliated and tribal loyalty will be breached if this is allowed to happen. However, much of it is also financial, as certain institutions just want to be seen to pass as many students as possible.

This sort of behavior doesn't appeal to all Saudis, especially the growing middle-class which is more discerning by far. The result? The weaker and less-motivated students are the ones more likely to end up in the bad unis, and so the rot perpetuates itself.

In absolute fairness to the government institutions, I believe that this sort of behavior is far more typical of the private unis. Look at the way any uni treats its staff. So it will also treat its students.

In my opinion, Saudi higher education will soon become polarized. The better unis will have much higher caliber students who expect higher standards, while the less reputable operations will attract a different kind of student, who will end up with a useless piece of paper. As it is, the difference between the state sector and most private institutions is considerable, with the former a long way ahead.

The biggest danger is that the government, though the grants system, will unwittingly force good students into the degree mills.

[johnslat]

Dear Bebsi,

"Very often, even totally honest and professional academics are forced by management to push the student through. "

During my time with the IPA, I was occasionally asked by different directors to "help" a student.
My standard reply was - "I'm sorry - I gave him what he got. I can't change that. But if you, as the Director, want to change the grade, well . . . . ."

No, I'm not noble - but I do have to live with myself. And once you start compromising your integrity (go ahead and laugh, but that's how I think of it,) there's no going back.

It's kind of like "virginity" - there's no such thing as being "almost a virgin."

Regards,
John

[Never Ceased To Be Amazed]

Bebsi...STOP THINKING AND GET BACK TO WORK!!!

Yer not paid to think, but to keep yer head down and push students thru the system!!!

NCTBA

[Cleopatra]

[quote="Sheikh N Bake"][quote="Cleopatra"]

[Cleopatra]

On a more serious subject, I think John is right in suspecting that envy is a part of the reason that our 'academic' colleagues purport to look down on us mere English teachers. I really do think many of them are quite threathened by us, not only because we (well, most of us anyway!) have bona fide degrees, but also because we are native speakers of English. This is even worse within ESL departments, where non-native speaking management often get very defensive and seem to think we're all after their lousy jobs, even though more often than not, nothing could be further from our minds!

One very strange way in which this insecurity manifests itself is the weird phenonemon of groups of Arabs speaking to each other in (often stilted) English, even when no English speaker is around! I've witnessed some bizarre situations where a student with almost zero English is speaking in Arabic to a 'doctora' who insists on speaking to (or rather at) her in English. Such people seem to have the bizarre notion that an ability to speak Arabic somehow disqualifies them from the job, even though being bilingual in English and Arabic is surely a major advantage which very few native speakers can boast of.

[Sheikh N Bake]

On the other hand, being asked by students to falsify their records is pretty much a weekly occurrence in the Emirates and the magical kingdom.

[Cleopatra]

[scot47]

I just spent some time with my students who treat the grading exercise like they were haggling for a second-hand car. Bargaining over grades for a writing assignment.

June 2011 is coming, the LORD be praised ! My island in the sun is waiting for me !

[Sheikh N Bake]

Ha ha, yes. They also try to reduce the tardy-values on the attendance sheet. I tell them this business of trying to negotiate grades and tardy numbers (3 mins, 7 mins, whatever) reminds me of a fish market. "Ten riyals?! Too much! [slapping my wrist with the back of my other hand] Why ten riyal? You crezzy! FIVE riyal!" They get a laugh out of that and drop it for a while.

As for Cleo's experience, perhaps the dynamic between female students vs. female instructors differs a bit from male/male classrooms.

[Cleopatra]

Don't even get me started on the daily palaver around 'attendance' and lateness. It amazes me how students who are generally so lax about time (which of course is why the subject comes up in the first place!) get so anal-retentive about arguing over the exact minute in which they arrived in class. "But teacher! I wasn't 10 minutes late, I was only 9 minutes late!"

[johnslat]

Dear Cleopatra,

"It's usually a bit more subtle than that. Instead, if a student gets, say 50% and requires 60% to pass the course, she will be allowed to resit the exam and/or be given extra assignments to give her sufficient 'bonus points' to pass. Sometimes, teachers find themselves giving extra classes to whole groups of students becasue the word has come down from on high that they must be passed by hook or by crook. "

Well, I loved the way the Directors would use "help" (rather than" GIVE THEM MORE POINTS.") I think that was about as subtle as they could be. Some teachers had no problem with adding on five or ten "extras," and I could understand their reasoning. I mean, if that's how they want to play the game, why should I care?

I cared because by that point in my life I'd learned that if you don't protect your standards, your integrity, well, you can use all the excuses you want, but when you let them make you do something you know is wrong, the payback isn't worth it.

We are all we have - if we compromise regarding what we think is right, all we can do is learn from our experiences and never do it again. My motives were strictly personal. I've found that it's much easier to live with myself when I don't feel guilty about having sold out (and yes, I learned that the hard way in the USMC; I screwed up, back when I was in my 20s - I've since learned that doing what others tell you is right, even when you know it's wrong is a very bad way to try to live your life.)

Regards,
John