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dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
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 Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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mastershake wrote:
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| I wouldn't go back home to the States to work right now for all the fish sticks in a super TESCO - economy still sucks and tons of competition for even the crappy jobs. |
a common misconception.
the economy doesn't "suck" in the USA right now, it's just not the land of mild and honey it used to be when our parents were our age. there's a difference between "sucks" and "less than what it was". i've been back for a month now and I could potentially have the EXACT job I've been planning for in about a month's time. a little hard work goes a long way.
if you ask me, the economy in the USA right now is teaching Americans a very valuable lesson, that they need to start bettering themselves with more training and education/experience if you want to succeed. that right of passage BS and awful sense of entitlement most Americans think they have earned just because they were "born on American soil" and "my daddy fought in the war" is starting to come to an end. just being American is not enough anymore. sure, this economy caused a lot of good hard working people to lose their jobs but it also got rid of a lot of those who were nothing but leaches to a company's yearly budget.
when expat americans go on about how poor the economy is in the USA, often times they're just using it as an excuse to not come back home and face the music, along with the fact that staying overseas allows them to assume less responsibility overall. it's difficult to judge someone when they're working a temporary job in a foreign country that can be still be filed under "exploring/travelling" but they all know that when they come back home, it's game time and that scares a lot of expats out there. |
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Master Shake
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1202
Location: Colorado, USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| dynow wrote: |
the economy doesn't "suck" in the USA right now, it's just not the land of mild and honey it used to be when our parents were our age. there's a difference between "sucks" and "less than what it was". i've been back for a month now and I could potentially have the EXACT job I've been planning for in about a month's time. a little hard work goes a long way. |
Compare the Polish versus U.S. economy in recent years and it does suck compared to Poland's. I don't know what dream job you've landed, but if I worked in a language school in the U.S. doing basically the same job I'm doing now (and I like my job) I wouldn't be making nearly as much, factoring in the difference in the cost of living.
| dynow wrote: |
| when expat americans go on about how poor the economy is in the USA, often times they're just using it as an excuse to not come back home and face the music, along with the fact that staying overseas allows them to assume less responsibility overall. it's difficult to judge someone when they're working a temporary job in a foreign country that can be still be filed under "exploring/travelling" but they all know that when they come back home, it's game time and that scares a lot of expats out there. |
Come home and 'face the music' eh? You're not making it sound very tempting!  I'd rather go and explore a new country for a year and leave the judging to people back in the States. Of course, I just started working on the DELTA again so life isn't so responsibility free now (was it ever really?) |
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dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:50 am Post subject: |
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mastershake wrote:
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| Come home and 'face the music' eh? You're not making it sound very tempting! Smile I'd rather go and explore a new country for a year and leave the judging to people back in the States. Of course, I just started working on the DELTA again so life isn't so responsibility free now (was it ever really?) |
I didn't mean to direct that towards you specifically, more of a generalization really, but I'm half tempted to respond to this post with "case and point".....
mastershake wrote:
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| but if I worked in a language school in the U.S. doing basically the same job I'm doing now (and I like my job) I wouldn't be making nearly as much |
there's plenty of money to be made in the USA in ESL, private or public sector. I chose a different path but I looked into it heavily and the opportunity is there to live very comfortably even teaching ESL in a public school. In most parts of the USA, qualified native speaking American ESL teachers with overseas experience are in high demand. Think about it....how many americans do you know that have spent any time at all living in a foreign country? top that with qualifications and years of work experience overseas.....and you're pretty damn marketable, Shake.[/code] |
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Master Shake
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1202
Location: Colorado, USA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| dynow wrote: |
| there's plenty of money to be made in the USA in ESL, private or public sector. I chose a different path but I looked into it heavily and the opportunity is there to live very comfortably even teaching ESL in a public school. In most parts of the USA, qualified native speaking American ESL teachers with overseas experience are in high demand. Think about it....how many americans do you know that have spent any time at all living in a foreign country? top that with qualifications and years of work experience overseas.....and you're pretty damn marketable, Shake.[/code] |
To teach ESL in the public sector in the U.S., you need an MA in TESOL or at least a teaching certificate. This would entail going back to school for 1-2 years. I don't think DELTA counts for jack in the States.
The U.S. has set itself up on a different qualifications system from the rest of the world. |
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sharter
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 878
Location: All over the place
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:50 pm Post subject: Re-Mastershake |
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Mastershake I'd love to know which Polish language school allows you to live better than you would in the States. Poland is more expensive than the States for clothes, electronic items, petrol, cars, flats (just look how cheap America is right now), booze and running a phone. Fast food prices are about the same.
While you can make 8k Zl/month working every hour that god sends...an average language school in Poland pays less than 3KZl......at Profi-lingua many moons ago I made 6.5K some months, without the publishing work.
Yes, Poland's shown phenomenal growth but have the benefits touched your average Joe there? I think not. Credit has been liberalized that's all. Young people in Poland, ie under 40, are screwed mostly.
Poland's growth has been skewed by a perfect summer of things working in its favour namely; EU accession, NATO accession, Euro 2012 money, the credit crunch which made international capital go for currencies that offered and interest rate, Poles being able to work overseas in millions. Inward investment to exploit the cheap labour there has also been paramount. People feel richer cos their houses are now worth much more and the equity they've borrowed allows them credit to have a better living standard. In the Uk, we know what happens eventually with these housing spikes....as do you folks in the US. When you talk to many Poles they often regret joining the EU.
I refuse to believe that you're better off in Poland than the U.S. as a teacher. Beer is cheaper in Poland and that's about it. |
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scottie1113
Joined: 25 Oct 2004
Posts: 375
Location: Gdansk
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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Sharter, I have to agree with you. I don't live better in Poland than I did in the US because I had a good job there and made a lot more money. But I certainly didn't come to Poland for the money. I came for the experience and it's been great for me so far. The things that drove dynow back to the US don't bother me; it's all small stuff and an integral part of living in Poland. I don't intend to go back to the US except for an occasional visit. I like it here.
While you're right that actual cost of a beer in Poland is cheaper then in the US, the relative cost (how long you have to work to earn the money to buy one) is quite a bit higher. On another forum, I read that the average wage in Poland is about 3000zl/month while the average in the US is $3000 a month. Reasonable enough. A Honda Civic in the US goes for about $18,000 and about 72,000zl here. An average US worker will pay 6 times his monthly earnings for that car, and his Polish counterpart will pay 24 times his monthly income for it. That's relative cost, and it explains why a 6zl beer in my favorite pub is actually more expensive than the $3.25 I paid in in California for a pint of Fat Tire.
And if you earn more than 30K in the US, which I did, it becomes even more expensive. Oh well. That's life in Poland. I don't think either country is "better", just different. |
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sharter
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 878
Location: All over the place
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:26 pm Post subject: Scottie |
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There 's loads I like about Poland but I'm just older now and I preferred it as it was. Old git syndrome I'm afraid. I love the home cooked food, I like the late night bar culture, I love the summers, the nature and the history that surrounds you everywhere.
I just think that the restaurants are a rip-off, the Poles are dour and sevice is shite.
Flats are ok pricewise if you compare the metrage to the Uk, but the quality is appalling. And just about everything I buy there falls to bits really quickly no matter how much I spend. The zip on my 1000 zl winter jacket lasted precisely 2 weeks.....
Lifestylewise...that teaching from 3-9 at uni with a few privates and some publishing work can be great.....I know, I did it. I left simply because I had a kid to pay for and a (then not now) lazy wife. |
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Jack Walker
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 412
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: Scottie |
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| sharter wrote: |
There 's loads I like about Poland but I'm just older now and I preferred it as it was. Old git syndrome I'm afraid. I love the home cooked food, I like the late night bar culture, I love the summers, the nature and the history that surrounds you everywhere.
I just think that the restaurants are a rip-off, the Poles are dour and sevice is shite.
Flats are ok pricewise if you compare the metrage to the Uk, but the quality is appalling. And just about everything I buy there falls to bits really quickly no matter how much I spend. The zip on my 1000 zl winter jacket lasted precisely 2 weeks.....
Lifestylewise...that teaching from 3-9 at uni with a few privates and some publishing work can be great.....I know, I did it. I left simply because I had a kid to pay for and a (then not now) lazy wife. |
Mr.Sharter,you seem to be having a lot of problems/issues with your Polish winter coats!  I would never pay 1,000zl for a winter coat in Poland.
I used to buy one every 2nd winter for about 150zl at the local targ, and they'd be fine for 2 solid winter's use.
I bought a big puffy one at Auchan for 80zl about 5 years ago, and I'm still using that occasionally here in Canada.
You need to re-think your winter coat purchasing system! |
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dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:56 am Post subject: |
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mastershake wrote:
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| To teach ESL in the public sector in the U.S., you need an MA in TESOL or at least a teaching certificate. |
so?
you do alternate route, the school pays for the program, you teach and earn money while you get your certificate, about 18 months later, you're done.
Before I went to Poland, i was considering doing NYC's alternate route program. They will PAY for your master's in education. All you need to do is sign a contract saying you'll teach in one of the 5 boroughs for a 2-3 year stint and you're goods. An entire master's degree for free and a job while you're getting it along with a job when you finish. 4 years ago, starting salary was around $46,000 for a science teacher. Not half bad.
Scottie1113 wrote:
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| I don't live better in Poland than I did in the US because.... |
because you lived in the USA, not Poland. I mean, rationalize all you want but let's call a spade a spade.
Scottie1113 wrote:
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| The things that drove dynow back to the US don't bother me; it's all small stuff |
really man? fill us in on this small stuff you speak of.
I fail to recognize how "everything is more expensive here except beer" falls under the category "small stuff". |
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scottie1113
Joined: 25 Oct 2004
Posts: 375
Location: Gdansk
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| It's all in how you look at it, man. Enough said. |
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dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:31 am Post subject: |
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scottie1113 wrote:
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| It's all in how you look at it, man. Enough said. |
when it comes to money, there's only one way to look at it. as for the rest, whatever floats your boat, man.
you've always been a peculiar one (i mean that in a good way) and I'd love to hear the real story one day. a guy in his 60's who gave up a great life in California to come to Poland to freeze his a$$ off and become an ESL teacher.......strange stuff, man.
but I guess it's all in how you look at it  |
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Master Shake
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1202
Location: Colorado, USA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: Re-Mastershake |
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| sharter wrote: |
Mastershake I'd love to know which Polish language school allows you to live better than you would in the States. Poland is more expensive than the States for clothes, electronic items, petrol, cars, flats (just look how cheap America is right now), booze and running a phone. Fast food prices are about the same.
While you can make 8k Zl/month working every hour that god sends...an average language school in Poland pays less than 3KZl......at Profi-lingua many moons ago I made 6.5K some months, without the publishing work.
I refuse to believe that you're better off in Poland than the U.S. as a teacher. Beer is cheaper in Poland and that's about it. |
Back home in the States, a CELTA/DELTA qualified teacher like myself isn't going to earn much per hour, if you can find a job at all - there aren't many language schools in Colorado and few immigrants who have money to spend on English lessons.
As dynow posted, you need to get an MA TESOL to get a job with decent earning potential. This is a couple years stuck taking a (typically teaching-light, theory-heavy) course which will teach me exactly how to do what I've already been doing for the last 3 years.  Maybe I will someday, but not in the near future.
Living in the U.S. also involves running a car (gas, insurance, maintence) which is something I have no need for here in Warsaw. It's a big expense.
Not to mention that rent is about the same in Warsaw vs. Poland.
I guess it's all in how you live your life. If I wanted to buy a lot of luxury goods, 1000zl jackets, and jacks and cokes then, yes, it probably would be more expensive for me here than to buy the same stuff in the States. |
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scottie1113
Joined: 25 Oct 2004
Posts: 375
Location: Gdansk
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| dynow wrote: |
when it comes to money, there's only one way to look at it. as for the rest, whatever floats your boat, man.
That's where we disagree, and we can leave it at that
you've always been a peculiar one (i mean that in a good way) and I'd love to hear the real story one day. a guy in his 60's who gave up a great life in California to come to Poland to freeze his a$$ off and become an ESL teacher.......strange stuff, man.
As I think I''ve said before, my kids were grown with their own families, and I'd wanted to live and work in Europe since my first trip to France in 1986. I've always been intersted in Poland, ever since I started to read about the country when I was about 10, so I decided to come for the experience. And Ive enjoyed it.
but I guess it's all in how you look at it |
Exactly. |
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dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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mastershake wrote:
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| As dynow posted, you need to get an MA TESOL to get a job with decent earning potential. |
actually, that's not what I said.....and that's a false statement.
I mentioned the master's program in NYC just as an example but you do not need a master's to teach ESL in the USA.
some more info on the subject:
http://connected.waldenu.edu/career-development/teacher-certification/item/1700-what-states-require-masters-degree-teachers
have a look at this article. it states that not ONE state in the USA requires you to have a master's when you START teaching. some states require you to eventually get one after several years of teaching but ANY state in the USA will allow you to start teaching K-12 with just a bachelor's. it also mentions that many states will pay for your continuing education while you teach for their schools.
It's also worth mentioning that most states do not require a master's at all to teach in their public schools, whether it's year 1 of your career or year 20. Where I'm from, New Jersey, it is not required to have anything more than a bachelor's for your entire career.
Teachers in general in the USA are REALLY in demand right now. The most desired teachers are those of the sciences, math and yep, you guessed it.....ESL. Turns out not many people are interested in teaching ESL and virtually nobody that is native American born has any significant experience living overseas or learning a 2nd language (not acquired but learned).
You may have to get out of Colorado to do it Shake but trust me, there is no shortage of jobs for a guy with your resume looking to teach ESL in a public school. |
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Master Shake
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1202
Location: Colorado, USA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:52 am Post subject: |
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I should have written "you need to get an MA TESOL or teaching certificate to get a job with decent earning potential."
Although a teaching cert isn't that hard to get: 1 year, and can be done while you are working as a teacher.
Would you enjoy teaching in your old high school? |
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