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BadBeagleBad
Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 1186
Location: 24.18105,-103.25185
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 Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Cleopatra wrote: |
Although, given that Gulf employers often refuse to recognise online degrees, it's possible they might do the same with an online CELTA. Assuming they know such a thing exists - I didn't until your question prompted me to google it! |
From the Cambridge website:
Will the fact that candidates have taken a CELTA course online appear on their certificates?
No. There is no need for this as assessed outcomes will be the same for all candidates. Courses will be assessed locally as at present. The assessor will observe face-to-face TP and have access to online materials. |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="BadBeagleBad"]
| Cleopatra wrote: |
From the Cambridge website:
Will the fact that candidates have taken a CELTA course online appear on their certificates?
No. There is no need for this as assessed outcomes will be the same for all candidates. Courses will be assessed locally as at present. The assessor will observe face-to-face TP and have access to online materials. |
Yeah, but most online degrees don't mention this on the certificate either. However, if employers read the CV and notice that the candidate was in, say, Taiwan when he/she did a degree issued by, say, the University of Leicester, it's pretty obvious that the degree was done online. The same might apply to online CELTAs, though since a CELTA only takes 4 weeks full-time, the candidate might be able to get around the 'being in two places at the one time' scenario a bit more easily. |
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cassava
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 175
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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Rockinrobin 714:
Be careful about blindly accepting some of the advice that is offered in this thread. I am not saying that people are lying, but their advice is obviously coloured by their personality and past experiences.
Don't be too concerned about your age and whether it will be a negative factor in your application. You are young and you can't change that. Furthermore, many employers in the ME, even in Saudi, are not prejudiced against younger employees. I can attest to that fact, having been a special observer on various university hiring committees during my time in Saudi. What counts is your personality. If you are seen as a strong, no-nonsense, but pleasant type of person, your application will be viewed favourably.
Once the committee is impressed by your personality and attitude, and you have the basic academic qualifications for the job, you will stand a good chance of being hired. What hiring committees don't want in a woman is a Silly Susan, a Whimpering Wendy or a Nervous Nellie. If you have such a personality, you wont be hired even if you are middle aged and have top qualifications.
My advice to you would be to open your mind to possible employment in any location-- small town, medium size town or large city. They all have their advantages and disadvantages, and you have something new to learn from everyone of them. Life is all about learning new things. Forget the nay-sayers, the pessimists and the doubters.
Good luck and stay positive. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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Dear cassava,
"Be careful about blindly accepting some of the advice that is offered in this thread. I am not saying that people are lying, but their advice is obviously coloured by their personality and past experiences."
Which, of course, is also true for those who are being "more encouraging."
And another factor that probably should be taken into consideration is the background of the advice-givers.
May I ask how long you were in Saudi Arabia, what your qualifications and experience are, and how much personal experience you have with other countries/employers in the Middle East?
I, for example, cannot give advice about, say, Oman, the UAE, and many other Middle Eastern countries since I've never worked/lived there. But having spent 19 years in Saudi, I do feel somewhat qualified to offer advice about that country.
Please don't think that I'm "putting you down." While I may disagree with some of your advice - for example, seemingly dismissing any "negative" input - I also agree with some: "My advice to you would be to open your mind to possible employment in any location-- small town, medium size town or large city. They all have their advantages and disadvantages, and you have something new to learn from everyone of them."
Regards,
John |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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cassava
| Quote: |
| What counts is your personality. If you are seen as a strong, no-nonsense, but pleasant type of person, your application will be viewed favourably. |
Personality counts of course, though it's a pretty subjective thing to judge. What count even more are relevant qualifications and experience, and the OP has very few of these to offer.
| Quote: |
| What hiring committees don't want in a woman is a Silly Susan, a Whimpering Wendy or a Nervous Nellie. If you have such a personality, you wont be hired even if you are middle aged and have top qualifications. |
Given all the very obviously 'unsuitable' teachers I've worked with over the years in Saudi Arabia, I'd have to disagree. Saudi hiring committees do not seem to be very skilled judges of character.
| Quote: |
My advice to you would be to open your mind to possible employment in any location-- small town, medium size town or large city. |
Personally, I would be very wary about advising any 'newbie' - especially a young single woman with no Middle East experience - to consider a job anywhere other than Riyadh, Jeddah or the Al Khobar conurbation. The disadvantages of taking a job in a small town are many, and the advantages very few indeed. |
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cassava
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 175
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Personally, I would be very wary about advising any 'newbie' - especially a young single woman with no Middle East experience - to consider a job anywhere other than Riyadh, Jeddah or the Al Khobar conurbation. |
There may very well be sound and logical reasons for this type of advice, but I tend to become somewhat apprehensive when a recommendation of this sort is offered based almost solely on a person's sex.
Let us recall that Rockinrobin 74 is not planning to make a career out of TEFL . All she wants to do is to maximize her earnings for a few years in order to pay off debts and probably to save some money for future use. Therefore, my advice to her would be to apply anywhere that she thinks that she has a fair chance of getting a job and earning a decent salary.
The fact that she might experience "loneliness", "lack of a social life", "boredom", etc. in a particular location does not constitute a valid ground for rejecting a job offer, if the location in question is the only place where she can get a job. Who knows? Her financial situation might be quite desperate. Of course, it's possible that there are other factors in this case that I am missing here because I am a man, but I simply can't think of them right now.
I would advise someone not to seek employment in a particular place only if there were risks of physical harm coming to that person because of war or local uprisings. Areas such as Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan obviously would not be given my green light. But surely Saudi Arabia cannot be classified with those countries.
I believe that we tend to be too protective of our young women. Many of them are far tougher and far more capable than we think. Many years ago, when I was in charge of a small college in Nunavut (not far from the Arctic), it was the female faculty members on whom I relied heavily when it became obvious that some of the men were succumbing to severe stress and simply could not cope. Many of those women were not much older than Rockinrobin74. By the way, Nunavut of years ago would make Saudi Arabia look like Paris in spring time.
Johnslat is quite right when he suggests that I also am influenced in my advice by my personality and past experiences. Of course, I am. I believe that the level of estrogen in a person's body should be of no more significance than the level of melanin that s/he might happen to have.
Johnslat also asks some for some information that, unfortunately, it would not be prudent for me to disclose in detail. They have to do with my career and past experiences in the Middle East. All that I can say is that I have worked in two countries in the region. In the first, I was involved in a North American-Middle East project. I prefer not to name the ME country. My work was of a highly classified nature, involving military contracts, secret arrangements and covert deals. I dealt with various levels of the ME military and senior officers of all divisions. Some of my contacts were CIA personnel.
I have mentioned, a few times in the past, that in my second job I was a member of a Canadian Advisory Committee to the Ministry of Higher Education (KSA). Most of us were profs and administrators who had been granted special release from our universities for this project. I have already revealed the small town where I was stationed, but I probably did not clarify the fact that all members of our group were constantly on the move in the KSA, attending meetings, consulting with senior university officials and sitting as special guests on hiring committees.
My experience in hiring procedures and practices in the Kingdom stem largely from the various occasions when I was a participant in these proceedings. I make no special claim to expertise in these matters and refer to them only because of the situation we are currently discussing.
In sum, since we do not know Rockinrobin74, the most that we can do for her is to state clearly the pros and cons of her choice of a particular location, emphasizing, of course, that these are merely our personal opinions. We should them leave it to her to make the final decision. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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Dear cassava.
Thanks for the information, but I guess I was more interested in how long you spent in the Kingdom and how extensively you traveled about in it. I have no desire to learn any classified details - especially since then, I imagine you'd have to kill me. 
I must admit that I agree with Cleo about the locations - as far as Saudi is concerned. Have you ever spent any time in, say, Buraidah or Najran? Personally, I'd advise against any first-timer to the Kingdom going to such places, regardless of whether the first-timer was male or female.
Regards,
John |
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cassava
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 175
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 12:23 am Post subject: |
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Johnslat:
As I mentioned previously, I did travel extensively in the Kingdom and in fact visited Buraidah and Najran on various occasions. I was impressed by the beauty of Najran, the extensive historical sites and the simplicity and charm of life there.
Buraidah was interesting in its own way. It had the reputation, somewhat undeserved, I thought, of being the "Wild West" of Saudi. A few religious rabble-rousers gave the place a bad name.
I would have absolutely no hesitation in recommending first-timers to the Kingdom to go and live in these places. The University of Qassim in Buraidah is well known in the KSA. These locations are a walk in the park compared to certain places in the world which I have visited. Nowhere in the Kingdom did I ever feel threatened, insecure or intimidated in any way. I have always felt more secure anywhere in Saudi than I feel walking in any large city in Canada or the US.
Nevertheless, wherever I am, I always have the means of fully defending myself while inflicting maximum damage against potential attackers. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| Visited. Did you work here ? I know the answer to that. |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| There may very well be sound and logical reasons for this type of advice, but I tend to become somewhat apprehensive when a recommendation of this sort is offered based almost solely on a person's sex. |
My advice was not based 'almost solely on a person's sex'. What I said was this:
| Quote: |
| Personally, I would be very wary about advising any 'newbie' - especially a young single woman with no Middle East experience - to consider a job anywhere other than Riyadh, Jeddah or the Al Khobar conurbation. |
And that advice stands. For men and for women, but especially for single women with no ME experience.
| Quote: |
Let us recall that Rockinrobin 74 is not planning to make a career out of TEFL . All she wants to do is to maximize her earnings for a few years in order to pay off debts and probably to save some money for future use. Therefore, my advice to her would be to apply anywhere that she thinks that she has a fair chance of getting a job and earning a decent salary. |
The OP seems to have abandoned the thread, but unless she's truly desperate, I would still advise against taking up a job in anywhere but the major urban centres of KSA. Jeddah and Riyadh are nothing to write home about, for sure, but they are big cities with a reasonable variety of shops and amenities, as well, of course, as large Western ex-pat communities. Life outside these cities would, I think, be a major culture shock for any 'newbie', with few compensating factors.
Like John and Scot, I'm also curious to know how long you've actually lived and worked in the Kingdom. You don't need to give us the details of your professional life, but merely passing through a place as a visitor is very very different from living there. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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Dear cassava,
Thank you for providing some information. I wonder if (without blowing your cover) you could tell us just how long you were employed in the Kingdom? (i.e. how many years.) Also, could you tell us how long you stayed in Buraidah and Najran? And did you venture to those places on your own or were you "escorted" as part of a group?
Regards,
John |
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globalnomad2
Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Posts: 562
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| cassava wrote: |
I dealt with various levels of the ME military and senior officers of all divisions. Some of my contacts were CIA personnel.
I have mentioned, a few times in the past, that in my second job I was a member of a Canadian Advisory Committee to the Ministry of Higher Education (KSA). |
---
"I always have the means of fully defending myself while inflicting maximum damage against potential attackers."
Oh--I do too. I once was attacked in a rough bar in northern New Jersey by a bunch of chopper-riding ruffians with tattoos and Nazi helmets. They said they were hairdressers. I had to teach them a lesson. I bruised their knuckles with my chin and gave their fists a beating with my nose. If they bothered me again I told them one phone call and Jason Bourne would be over to assassinate them. |
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cassava
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 175
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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Johnslat:
I prefer not to continue divulging further information. I disclosed certain facts only because YOU asked direct questions which I thought I had an obligation to answer. Now the whole topic, which should be about the concerns of a young OP, has been changed, and what was supposed to be a serious discussion is being reduced to ridicule by moronic comments like those of globalnomad 2. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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Dear cassava,
I'm sorry that you feel that way. Unfortunately, for me, at least, it's really impossible for me to determine the validity of your opinions without the information I requested.
However, since I'm not the OP, that's no great loss. If the OP ever does return to this thread, she'll have to make up her mind based on what's already here.
I disagree, of course, with some of what you've posted, but that's based on what I experienced and learned during my 19 years there. That, however, does not necessarily make my opinions the only possible ones.
She can PM me if she wants - I imagine that you'd also be willing to let her do that (once she reaches the required 5 posts.)
Regards,
John |
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cassava
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 175
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:53 am Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
| Visited. Did you work here ? I know the answer to that. |
Of course, I "worked". Perhaps I failed to make it clear that all members of the Canadian committee were tightly integrated into the tertiary level Saudi educational system. How else could we have done our jobs? There were so many aspects to this project and there was so much expected of us that we had to "work"as teachers and professors, although our salaries were paid by the Canadian government and not by the Saudis. The visits that we made to various university or government centres were part of the job and constituted a rigorous routine.
We were all stationed in different parts of the Kingdom and were instructed not to reveal our true identities nor the real nature of our work there. The project was akin to a sociological participant-observation study where it is crucial for the researcher to appear to be just another member of the group.
That is why, to this day, I do not want to reveal how long I stayed in the Kingdom because that would simply be another clue which could lead to uncovering my true identity. According to our contract, such a revelation was absolutely forbidden even after the completion of the project. Don't ask me why; I didn't make up up the rules.
All members of the committee came from different disciplines. If you think mine was English (ESL/EFL), you are completely wrong. My PhD has nothing to do with English. That was part of our camouflage to throw certain individuals off the trail. Looking back now, with the advantage of hindsight, the whole procedure seems to have been so puerile.
I think that at the completion of the project, most members of our group were quite disappointed because so many of our recommendations were rejected. If they had been all accepted, Saudi tertiary level education would have improved tremendously. Some members of our committee felt that they had been "used", although they never elaborated on this assertion. I doubt that the Saudis have ever initiated a similar enterprise with a foreign government since the completion of the Canadian project.
As for my previous job in Canada with CSIS, I brought that up only to answer a question asked by Johnslat. Nevertheless, I rarely discuss that part of my life because it sounds like the stuff of fiction. On the few occasions when I have mentioned it, people simply assume that I am making up the whole thing. Yet, every word that I said was true. Fortunately, all that is now in the past. |
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