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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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 Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:16 am Post subject: |
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pec,
you probably mnisunderstood my problem with Chinese corporate classes;
I hate giving lessons to ADULTS who are working and get a special privilege - their employers paying for English brushup class that they do not care for.
The main problem is they are undermotivated; the principal reason why they attend is because the lesson is a freebie.
Just remember how your parents cared for the food, housing and medical care provided by their danwei: next to nothing.
They took it for granted, and didn't take good care of things. And things tend to be of a low quality - canteen food for example - so people simply stuff their mouths and throw half full bowls of veggies away.
That's what I am seeing in employer-funded lessons.
The adult students should have to pay for themselves, and they should submit to my selection criteria! |
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struelle
Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 2372
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:51 am Post subject: |
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| A foreign teacher has to understand the Chinese culture and history further. If you want to instruct a student, you have to know why he makes so trivial mistake for you. English is not only a language, but also represents a kind of culture and tradition. |
Very true. One thing that helps with this is that I'm learning Chinese. If I learn the structure and thinking of Putonghua, it also helps me understand the types of errors that Chinese students make in English.
First there's the common grammatical errors, such as lack of articles, comfusing he/she. Then there's sentences like "Although ... but" or "Because ... so" or "I very like ... " that have direct Chinese translations.
Also, there are types of phrases and expressions that seem rather silly to a native speaker, like "he gave me a deep impression" or "life can be very colorful" or "she's very lovely" and so on.
But looking into the Chinese language, such phrases are commonplace. Expressions like that are part of the nuances of Chinese culture, even though they may not be standard English. Still, I think those phrases should be corrected 
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| From your viewpoint, I guess you are a real professional teacher. Thank you for your teaching in China! |
[/quote]
I appreciate this a lot, and thanks for your encouragement! These days I feel rather down for a number of reasons, and I'm questioning my future teaching here.
Encouraging posts like yours and my own classes show that it's really about the students, and it's about helping them grow and develop. This is very motivating to me as a teacher.
Once again, thanks!!
Steve |
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pec
Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 13
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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I find it hard to communicate with FTs now. Maybe my expression skills set back??
I cherished the time I had spent with Chinese-American Language Association teachers 10 years before. Easy-understanding, kind-hearted, willing to dedicate. Now I can seldom see these. Drunk, hard-communicating, money-going. Is China too open?
I posted "Why Do You Come to China to Teach?", I found a beam of sunlight. Yes, they are still there, but fewer and fewer. |
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oprah
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 382
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| Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| To Pet.. what does FT stand for? |
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pec
Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 13
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| oprah wrote: |
| To Pet.. what does FT stand for? |
It stands for foreign teachers. |
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Burl Ives
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 226
Location: Burled, PRC
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| Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| pec wrote: |
I cherished the time I had spent with Chinese-American Language Association teachers 10 years before. Easy-understanding, kind-hearted, willing to dedicate. Now I can seldom see these. Drunk, hard-communicating, money-going. Is China too open? |
Pec, why so sentimental? The answer is easy: China should give less and less money. With so little money, only the ones truly dedicated to China would come.
China is too open.
By the way, what's your salary? |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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| Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:51 am Post subject: |
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I don't believe China is TOO OPEN. It simply has moved the goalposts and now, the objective of having a FT is different from what it used to be.
Don't really know the original reasons for hiring westerners (it began in 1979!), and it began after America finally grew up a little and started behaving less vindictively to the Chinese; in order to be acceptable to their Chinese opposite numbers, they probably adopted a new outlook marked by PC'ness, and in so doing most likely submitted to CHinese whims much more than was good for the business of promoting English. Too many docile English techers - "dedicated, nice, friendly", in short: pliable, manipulable, flexible - but not exactly what the Chinese English students needed.
These days, we are no longer here to promote English but to promote the BUSINESS of English teaching. The market is now driven by the regular market forces, no longer by what's politically expedient.
I think I can se wheree pec's feelings are coming from, but I cannot buy his belief that things were essentiallybetter before.
Not that I disagree with him in saying that most of the FT's come here for another wrong reason - adventurism/escapism and money worship.
There should be some idealism involved in it, but frankly speaking, idealism has never been respected in China. I know this from the horse's mouth - the students here! |
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Burl Ives
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 226
Location: Burled, PRC
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| Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| Roger wrote: |
I don't believe China is TOO OPEN. It simply has moved the goalposts and now, the objective of having a FT is different from what it used to be.
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These days, we are no longer here to promote English but to promote the BUSINESS of English teaching. The market is now driven by the regular market forces, no longer by what's politically expedient.
I think I can se wheree pec's feelings are coming from, but I cannot buy his belief that things were essentiallybetter before.
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I have this idea about the Chinese view of things. It might be that the past really did house a golden age. Things inescapably brutal swathed in a claustrophic simplicity have a melancholy beauty for Chinese. The Disney version, for those of us looking around for a touchstone, might be Iron and Silk. More recently, River Town.
These days really are more grubby. The loveless ignorant innocence of the peasant has been replaced by a middle class ignorant arrogance. For those that likes it simple, the emporer's ruling class mentality has been democratised: money rules. I call it the trickle-down theory of economics.
But, like my pappy never did say, neither a historian nor a story-teller be. |
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Cowboy Pete
Joined: 28 Mar 2004
Posts: 106
Location: Godless China thank God
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| Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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This thread is boring. You all suck  |
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Burl Ives
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 226
Location: Burled, PRC
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| Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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Pete, Peter, Petie, Hi. Welcome, Cowboy.
I suck. They don't. I do. Whenever I can.
I don't think you should suck.
[edit: you don't need to know.]
Last edited by Burl Ives on Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:28 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Cowboy Pete
Joined: 28 Mar 2004
Posts: 106
Location: Godless China thank God
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| Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Dude. Wheres my class? |
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Burl Ives
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 226
Location: Burled, PRC
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| Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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Around the class hole.
Use both hands, |
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extoere
Joined: 23 Feb 2004
Posts: 543
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| Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:56 pm Post subject: Why Do You Come To China To Teach? |
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Cowboy Pete: Of all personalities on this site, YOU do not want to mix it up with Burl Ives! He strums a mean banjo!
extoere |
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pec
Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 13
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Burl Ives wrote: |
Pec, why so sentimental? The answer is easy: China should give less and less money. With so little money, only the ones truly dedicated to China would come. China is too open. By the way, what's your salary? |
Teachers did more but received less long before. But now totally in reverse order.
"The market is now driven by the regular market forces." Yes, I agree to this viewpoint. I think Training Market is being the sprouting domain all over the world. But Training Market belongs to education. You can not earn money without principles.
Not EVERYONE CAN BE A TEACHER, JUST LIKE NOT EVERY CHRISTIAN IS A PURE PRAYER! If you do not have any dedication, how can you have any patience? Money, money all the time? how can you instruct the spoiled students? No pains, no gains. Students pay you, but you can not teach them well, what will they gain? Complaint? Punishment? Or leaving away? Teachers can leave, but what shall the students do? Who can make up their losing time. This is only my idio-viewpoint without any trespassing against others.
I own a company, which programs for big companies. It can bring me much more money than teaching, but I prefer teaching. Because it really gives you too, too much. I will tell my story later if anyone wants to listen to. |
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Burl Ives
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 226
Location: Burled, PRC
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| Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:07 am Post subject: |
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Pec, I'm sorry for your distress.
Guiding principles will not exist when the teacher takes himself to be the only guide. The student will be required always to return to the teacher for the answer to anything they seek. Which in turn leads one to ask, why would they seek for anything? After the student has been made in this way powerless, they still have to eat, so they seek money.
Teachers are the root of all evil. |
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