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G Cthulhu
Joined: 07 Feb 2003 Posts: 1373 Location: Way, way off course.
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:01 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| stumptowny wrote: |
| that's exactly how it went down. it was that timing aligned. a poor fit realization (on both sides) with my visa being completed at the same time. |
You can see it that way. I choose not to. |
You refuse to accept the statement of the person actually the subject of the discussion who is the only one with access to the facts of events?
Now *that's* arrogance! :lol: |
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009 Posts: 1546 Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:23 am Post subject: Re: my email response... |
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| stumptowny wrote: |
Hello (name),
I was fired. I did not quit. Confirm this with (principal).
Thank you for telling me the transportation amount owed to me. Please include the transportation amount with my final cash salary payment, which I will be receiving (date).
I will be picking up my final payment from the (location) on (date) so please instruct that person to include the transportation amount with the final salary amount.
My work visa was issued the same day I went to the immigration office, (date). I can bring my ARC card on (same day date I pick up my money) but no changes have been made to this card. The ARC copies you and (person) have now are still valid and accurate.
Have a great June and July! Thank you for all your help.
You are so kind... |
Your opening line about being fired sounds a bit clipped... a bit like a frustrated parent talking down to a child. It seems a bit angry and as if you believe they should have known better. I would be slightly offended if somebody spoke down to me like that especially when I was not deserving of being on the receiving end of such attitude.
Consider rewording that opening.
I would also completely lose the forth paragraph. You have given them an awful lot of information about your ARC that they may not already know. For example, we do not know what time you worked but most ESL workers could have made it to the city hall to have had the necessary changes made since they are open generally from 9am to after 5pm. If you give them all that info now, they might then start asking more questions and find a way to use the info against you... possibly to avoid paying you what they have already promised; they do have a month in which to do research after all. I also would not promise to show them your ARC on the collection day (I know that is not what you said, but it does seem to be what is implied).
I would replace it with a politely worded question as to what they need a copy of your ARC for?
And is, "you are so kind" how you would normally end professional written communications? It's not at all professional and seems a bit too "friendly". Either lose it (the line before is a perfectly acceptable note to end a letter/email on) or replace that line with a standard ending (regards, yours sincerely, etc) |
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Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| G Cthulhu wrote: |
You refuse to accept the statement of the person actually the subject of the discussion who is the only one with access to the facts of events?
Now *that's* arrogance!  |
No, not arrogance. Realism. The OP may think he knows it's a matter of timing. I am trying to read between lines with more experience than he has.
If I'm wrong, so be it. Just offering my opinion, which is what discussion forums are for. |
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yamanote senbei

Joined: 28 Jun 2005 Posts: 435
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| -chris wrote: |
I've heard a lot of people saying that ALTs in public schools (esp those hired through dispated companies) got fired like every month or every day!!
Could someone say something about this? Is it still happening in Japan every day? |
Yes, it's still happening. The good news is that a dedicated group of Tokyo-area ALTs have gotten together and have decided to do something about it. You may have seen them on an NHK story recently.
http://tokyogeneralunion.org/branches/tozen-alts |
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yamanote senbei

Joined: 28 Jun 2005 Posts: 435
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| He uses the word "principal", so I don't think it is an eikaiwa. |
It sounds like it's one of those so-called international preschools. |
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stumptowny
Joined: 29 May 2011 Posts: 310
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:21 am Post subject: Re: my email response... |
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| seklarwia wrote: |
| stumptowny wrote: |
Hello (name),
I was fired. I did not quit. Confirm this with (principal).
Thank you for telling me the transportation amount owed to me. Please include the transportation amount with my final cash salary payment, which I will be receiving (date).
I will be picking up my final payment from the (location) on (date) so please instruct that person to include the transportation amount with the final salary amount.
My work visa was issued the same day I went to the immigration office, (date). I can bring my ARC card on (same day date I pick up my money) but no changes have been made to this card. The ARC copies you and (person) have now are still valid and accurate.
Have a great June and July! Thank you for all your help.
You are so kind... |
Your opening line about being fired sounds a bit clipped... a bit like a frustrated parent talking down to a child. It seems a bit angry and as if you believe they should have known better. I would be slightly offended if somebody spoke down to me like that especially when I was not deserving of being on the receiving end of such attitude.
Consider rewording that opening.
I would also completely lose the forth paragraph. You have given them an awful lot of information about your ARC that they may not already know. For example, we do not know what time you worked but most ESL workers could have made it to the city hall to have had the necessary changes made since they are open generally from 9am to after 5pm. If you give them all that info now, they might then start asking more questions and find a way to use the info against you... possibly to avoid paying you what they have already promised; they do have a month in which to do research after all. I also would not promise to show them your ARC on the collection day (I know that is not what you said, but it does seem to be what is implied).
I would replace it with a politely worded question as to what they need a copy of your ARC for?
And is, "you are so kind" how you would normally end professional written communications? It's not at all professional and seems a bit too "friendly". Either lose it (the line before is a perfectly acceptable note to end a letter/email on) or replace that line with a standard ending (regards, yours sincerely, etc) |
Huge thanks Sek. you directly addressed my letter which is what I have been waiting for...
It is difficult for me to be polite. I can be pretty blunt back home so I can't imagine how I come off here. Thanks for pointing this out for the first sentence. Not sure what to say to Japanize it?? please, excuse me, I am sorry. thank you... I was fired, I am sorry, thank you, thank you. hmm?? help me!
About the fourth paragraph... agreed and done. I will make them work for it rather than potentially incriminate myself. good call.
the you are so kind ending was for the HR person I am sending it to. He is very kind and helpful. Normally I would respond to him this way... given this situation, I will not. tone needs to be consistent...
Last point, when should I respond? in 1 week, 2 weeks? I want to create some time between the request and my response to show I am not overly worried, needy, and in control. and it will give them less time to make problems between now and final pay day.
Does anyone think I should respond quickly and why? No one has mentioned the reason they have requested this information "ASAP" so I guess the consensus is... no worries about urgency. thoughts? |
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midnightpariah
Joined: 26 May 2007 Posts: 85
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:52 am Post subject: |
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I would say something along the lines of: I don't know if there has been a miscommunication, but I was dismissed from my position. Could you please confirm this with Boss as I don't want there to be any confusion regarding my paperwork.
Something like that would sound more professional imo. |
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009 Posts: 1546 Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| midnightpariah wrote: |
I would say something along the lines of: I don't know if there has been a miscommunication, but I was dismissed from my position. Could you please confirm this with Boss as I don't want there to be any confusion regarding my paperwork.
Something like that would sound more professional imo. |
Agreed. That sounds like the writer believes there has been an innocent mistake/misunderstanding rather than the coarse and slightly accusatory tone of the OP's original response.
| stumptowny wrote: |
the you are so kind ending was for the HR person I am sending it to. He is very kind and helpful. Normally I would respond to him this way... given this situation, I will not. tone needs to be consistent...
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I understand, but there is a time and a place for personal feelings/comments and a business related email (especially one of such a nature that is likely to be read at the workplace) is not it because you do not honestly know who is going to read this email.
Plus you do not know how genuine this guys really is; it could be a game of good cop, bad cop.
If this guy really does come through for you and is cool to the end then you can express your appreciation to him in person when you have your money in hand before you walk out the door for good. If you get too friendly before then and guy is really a double agent, you might let slip something your ex-employer could use (which would become doubly dangerous if you immortalised that slip in writing/email).
| Quote: |
| Last point, when should I respond? in 1 week, 2 weeks? I want to create some time between the request and my response to show I am not overly worried, needy, and in control. and it will give them less time to make problems between now and final pay day. |
These kinds of mental games are again, not very professional. You are dealing with an employer not a potential bf/gf (although I've never understood why some people feel the need to play these games even in relationships). People who do play these games dont come across as not overly worried or needy and in control; they just seem inconsiderate, not caring and (if the receiver picks on what you are trying to do) rather immature.
In business, clear and prompt responses (even the ones that do not contain the desired response) always go down better than a crazily late or no response. |
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Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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The sooner you respond, the better you will look to any outsider.
Might want to start the letter with a standard "Dear...." instead of a strangely casual "Hello".
You could also begin by a typical polite "Thank you for your email/letter of <date> regarding <whatever issues the HR person wrote about>."
Then, add your message:
"Just to make things clear, you might not have heard that I was fired by principal Watanabe. I did not quit." |
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stumptowny
Joined: 29 May 2011 Posts: 310
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:33 pm Post subject: LCA Kokusai Elementary School |
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LCA Kokusai Elementary School
all finished. in the end I got my pay.
for anyone interested in the details of this school and job...
the school name is LCA international school in sagamihara, outer tokyo. the pay is 350,000 a month. tons of vacation and torrid working conditions. and word is, when you make this much in this income bracket, there is a huge tax taken from your paycheck (500-600 bucks!) so the net pay is not nearly as great..
the premise of the school is, the zen-founding principal has a rays-of-light teaching philosophy of no discipline and no punishment for students. they can do as they please and teachers must take their time to counsel the students with their innate zen ability.. (and if its not innate you get to watch a dvd of the enlightened principal save japanese teachers role playing as troubled youth for your own zen enrichment while your actual teaching conditions are completely different because you are.... White and working with actual students, some of which are monsters)
the school prides itself on being the only school of its kind in Japan. I did not stay long enough to notice any change or success with my students.
but the business model is clear behind the guise of open arms and learning. they will accept and tolerate any student, no matter how badly they behave, while using "bi-lingual" and "international" tags to build enrollment (revenue). the "zen learning" approach is also used as a selling point to the parents. and observers from around japan come to see how this school works because the image portrayed to the media and visiting observers is a charade. behind school doors, in the classrooms, safely away from the parents, it's a zoo. kids fight, argue, punch each other, throw things, speak bad to teachers in japanese and english. anything goes and it goes all day long.
during observation week, parents came in, sat in on my classes, and observed. the kids were perfectly behaved. no mystery there. they don't want to ruin the fun time they have by letting their parents know how they normally are. no one wants to rock the boat and the teacher is expected to cope.
as you can imagine it is a nightmare. no punishment/discipline = no rules to the students. teachers choosing to stay are gluttons for punishment to the free-for-all the kids' parents pay the high tuition for them to have... it's a circus and many of the kids collectively misbehave for the english based classes. why not. it's fun. when a japanese teacher teaches they are behaved. same for admin. any administrators that came in, boom, they suddenly behave perfectly. My lessons observed by the admin were perfect as well... the students were spot on. the manager thought I was a great teacher.
anyway, english classes taught are merely play time, a waiting time for the japanese classes which are actually accountable via real testing standards. the students take japanese classes seriously as their academic lives depend on it. but its damage control for native teachers. cant blame the students for wanting to misbehave as the school system is torturous in japan but it's not the responsibility of any teacher to accept these conditions and many do not stay at this school. the english that is actually being taught is: sit down, please stop, be quiet, face forward...
I truly realized it was this school only wants money when I called for a parent meeting for my worst student. I had written an honest, detailed email to the parent prompting the meeting. I was excited to address this student thinking it would calm the class to get him in check. there were 3 school reps present to 'translate' between the one parent and I. they sugar coated the meeting so much in japanese that it actually became my fault in the end. none of the details (truths) in the email were addressed and the principal said, we don't like to get caught up in details, to the parent. i.e. don't rock the revenue boat was the take away. luckily, before the meeting had formally started, i had told the mom what was happening in the class and what her son was doing. she knew her child's problems and she knew how much the staff were bs'ing to her.
So I did not have any real support at any level. I had my own classroom all day. no help. and I was teaching art, science, English and home ec and PE for 5th and 6th grade. no training manual, no curriculum, and mostly teaching from pictures from japanese text books. not joking. teaching art and science back home requires a subject specific credential! PE as well. the head teacher was nice but a mute, not capable of training. the prepping did get easier, as I realized quality did not matter, but the kids got worse as they realized I would not kill myself to police them incessantly. I am a teacher, nothing more.
when I met with the principal the last time, I offered my advice to him. I truly felt sorry for the schools failures and wanted to help them. some of the students were well behaved and constantly suffering because the bad students lowering the value of class time. their money was being wasted basically. my advice to the principal would help future new hires, which in turn would help the school validate their hiring choices and save them money. but the principal said, I do not need your advice. actually, you do. I will not offer it now. it was a one time offer. his zen pride will have him falling into the zen holes for a while longer.
thank you for all your advice!! much appreciated... |
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009 Posts: 1546 Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:12 pm Post subject: Re: LCA Kokusai Elementary School |
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| stumptowny wrote: |
| the school name is LCA international school in sagamihara, outer tokyo. the pay is 350,000 a month. tons of vacation and torrid working conditions. and word is, when you make this much in this income bracket, there is a huge tax taken from your paycheck (500-600 bucks!) so the net pay is not nearly as great.. |
Actually, that sounds more like a lazy employer and the correct paperwork not being given to the tax office.
I remember reading that if I didn't submit a certain form yearly, that I would automatically be put in a default tax class where I would be paying that amount despite earning considerably less. But because I wrote my name on a form, circled single and signed it, I am put in a tax bracket where I pay about 10% of that figure.
You should make sure your next employer does things properly so that you aren't needlessly paying huge amounts of tax. |
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Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:33 am Post subject: Re: LCA Kokusai Elementary School |
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| stumptowny wrote: |
the school name is LCA international school in sagamihara, outer tokyo. the pay is 350,000 a month. tons of vacation and torrid working conditions. and word is, when you make this much in this income bracket, there is a huge tax taken from your paycheck (500-600 bucks!) so the net pay is not nearly as great.. |
350,000 yen/month is 4.2 million yen/year.
Look at this site.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2206.html
With that annual income, you should be in the same tax bracket as a JET ALT, who makes 3.6 million.
| Quote: |
| the premise of the school is, the zen-founding principal has a rays-of-light teaching philosophy of no discipline and no punishment for students. they can do as they please and teachers must take their time to counsel the students with their innate zen ability.. |
And, you knew this coming in, right? And if so, you still took the job, right?
| Quote: |
luckily, before the meeting had formally started, i had told the mom what was happening in the class and what her son was doing. she knew her child's problems and she knew how much the staff were bs'ing to her. |
Yet, you said the wool is pulled over everyone's eyes. What did this parent do afterward?
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| So I did not have any real support at any level. I had my own classroom all day. no help. |
Illegal, I believe.
| Quote: |
and I was teaching art, science, English and home ec and PE for 5th and 6th grade. no training manual, no curriculum, and mostly teaching from pictures from japanese text books. not joking. teaching art and science back home requires a subject specific credential! PE as well. |
You might want to check into things here, because I believe you will find it is similar. Not sure but almost. |
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stumptowny
Joined: 29 May 2011 Posts: 310
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: LCA Kokusai Elementary School |
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| Quote: |
| the premise of the school is, the zen-founding principal has a rays-of-light teaching philosophy of no discipline and no punishment for students. they can do as they please and teachers must take their time to counsel the students with their innate zen ability.. |
And, you knew this coming in, right? And if so, you still took the job, right?
nope. none of the no-punishment/discipline stuff was disclosed during hiring. only, how is your classroom management?, interview question. finally, after 2 months of mixed success using various punishments and rules, I was told, you can do nothing punitive. it is our way. I was like, wow, really?! pretty important information to leave out of the interview... ya think.
anyway, I made out great in the end. cash payments for the 3 months I worked and a visa sponsorship.... peace out! |
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Vince
Joined: 05 May 2003 Posts: 559 Location: U.S.
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: LCA Kokusai Elementary School |
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I assume stumptowny is gone, but just in case:
| stumptowny wrote: |
| I truly realized it was this school only wants money when I called for a parent meeting for my worst student. I had written an honest, detailed email to the parent prompting the meeting. |
This is probably why you were fired.
| Quote: |
| when I met with the principal the last time, I offered my advice to him. |
Unless specifically asked, don't bother giving advice in an exit interview. Regardless of what your intentions are, the result is a slighted ego and mismatched worldviews. If you are specifically asked, keep it down to a sentence. Instead of "you should," position it as "I wish I could have done more to ... ." |
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stumptowny
Joined: 29 May 2011 Posts: 310
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Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: LCA Kokusai Elementary School |
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| Vince wrote: |
I assume stumptowny is gone, but just in case:
| stumptowny wrote: |
| I truly realized it was this school only wants money when I called for a parent meeting for my worst student. I had written an honest, detailed email to the parent prompting the meeting. |
This is probably why you were fired.
| Quote: |
| when I met with the principal the last time, I offered my advice to him. |
Unless specifically asked, don't bother giving advice in an exit interview. Regardless of what your intentions are, the result is a slighted ego and mismatched worldviews. If you are specifically asked, keep it down to a sentence. Instead of "you should," position it as "I wish I could have done more to ... ." |
you are wrong. here's why: ego's do not impede communication, slighted or not and chalking things up to worldviews is a cop out.
it's exactly a time to voice your opinion, that includes advice. make your point briefly and with honesty. if you feel its what you need to do, don't wait to be asked. your choice. being employed means it's your job as much as theirs and the result is, err, the truth. go figure.
don't be afraid... especially of you are leaving! |
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