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JimJam
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 69
Location: UK
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 Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Don't do it long-term unless you have another source of |
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| sharter wrote: |
| when you meet someone and have kids life will become really unaffordable unless you move somewhere or have a working wife....or work 40 hours a week |
A 40 hour week. Never! And a wife who goes to work. It's just not proper!
Everyone I know who isn't a teacher works 40 hours a week. It's normal. It's also normal for both parents to work. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:59 am Post subject: Re: Don't do it long-term unless you have another source of |
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| JimJam wrote: |
| Everyone I know who isn't a teacher works 40 hours a week. It's normal. It's also normal for both parents to work. |
Define normal. It depends on where you are. Where I grew up, ALL the moms stay home. Out of my friends, only about 10 percent of the women work. |
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JimJam
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 69
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:43 am Post subject: Re: Don't do it long-term unless you have another source of |
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| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| Define normal. |
Yes, obviously it's subjective but I would be surprised if you disagree that most people outside EFL need to work a full time contract to survive. Forget about all those moaning TEFLers who only just manage to drag themselves into work for 15 hours a week and then complain they don't have enough money at the end of the month.
Speaking from a UK perspective the idea that a young adult woman can stay at home changing nappies while hubby goes off to the factory have long gone. Not working is a luxury good and that's why we celebrate women who manage to achieve it through birth or other "talents". See the recent celebration of Kate Middleton's success at cementing her place well away from the labour market (otherwise know as the "royal wedding").
If many of your female friends don't work I would say it is more of a reflection of their age (i.e. baby boomer hogging all the resources) or socio economic class (i.e. they married/were born well). Globally it is not a feature of most women's life experiences any more than it is that of men's. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: Don't do it long-term unless you have another source of |
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| JimJam wrote: |
| If many of your female friends don't work I would say it is more of a reflection of their age (i.e. baby boomer hogging all the resources) or socio economic class (i.e. they married/were born well). Globally it is not a feature of most women's life experiences any more than it is that of men's. |
age, late 20s, early 30s. pastor's wives or teacher's wives. there goes that theory  |
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contented
Joined: 17 Oct 2011
Posts: 136
Location: اسطنبول
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: Don't do it long-term unless you have another source of |
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| JimJam wrote: |
| Speaking from a UK perspective the idea that a young adult woman can stay at home changing nappies while hubby goes off to the factory have long gone. Not working is a luxury good and that's why we celebrate women who manage to achieve it through birth or other "talents". Globally it is not a feature of most women's life experiences any more than it is that of men's. |
In my age group, all my friends have to work. In my parents' generation I know plenty of their friends who didn't have to work. They could stay home while the husbands went off to work each day.
I have an acquaintance who held down a full-time job and then right before she got married she quit. She stays at home and keeps her house in tip-top shape, but they are under strain because it's difficult for the husband to support the family on his meager income. I suggested she get a job even if it's part-time to help carry the load and she refuses to do so. She thinks it's her husband's responsibility. She won't lift a finger to help. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Don't do it long-term unless you have another source of |
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| contented wrote: |
In my age group, all my friends have to work. In my parents' generation I know plenty of their friends who didn't have to work. They could stay home while the husbands went off to work each day.
I have an acquaintance who held down a full-time job and then right before she got married she quit. She stays at home and keeps her house in tip-top shape, but they are under strain because it's difficult for the husband to support the family on his meager income. I suggested she get a job even if it's part-time to help carry the load and she refuses to do so. She thinks it's her husband's responsibility. She won't lift a finger to help. |
Though honestly, if you calculate it, it's often similar if both parents work.
You have to factor in
child care
transport to work and the daycare
work clothes
Plus, missing the kids grow up, Priceless. 
But seriously, if my husband would work, I'd have to spend 1000 to 1500 on a nanny, since the daycare won't accept her due to her age. Right now he's taking care of the baby, so it's free. JObs here with his skill set would pay 1000 to 2000 for 12 hour days. NOt worth it. |
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contented
Joined: 17 Oct 2011
Posts: 136
Location: اسطنبول
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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@naturegirl-- I'm counting my acquaintance and her husband as a family unit. No kids. The husband with his skill sets makes enough for him to live on; not enough to adequately provide for both of them. She needs to work too and pull her weight.
I'm not objecting to moms (or dads) staying home and watching the kids. If the husband (or wife) can provide for the whole family then so be it. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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I wish I could stay at home. I know you're not objecting to it, but it's not just as simple as saying, oh if she works, she'll bring in an extra 25K a year. Childcare costs also have to be taken into account.
Anyways, it's otugh no matter what you do. |
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contented
Joined: 17 Oct 2011
Posts: 136
Location: اسطنبول
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| They don't have kids. Not yet anyway. So she could at least help her husband and earn some bucks. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Ok, that's totally different then. No kids, no excuses. |
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JimJam
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 69
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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Actually I don't think anyone has to work if they can afford not to. It's not an obligation to work and as I wrote not working is in fact a luxury product which is very nice to have if your husband or wife can afford it.
However, I think it's damaging in a country like the UK (where real wages are falling and the costs of food, utility bills rent etc are shooting up) to bring young people up thinking they have an easy way to get out of the labour market. Having a few children and calling yourself a 'homemaker' used to be one but it isn't any more.
Instead of teaching young women that their route to freedom is through attaching themselves to a successful man don't you think it would be better to be encouraging them to be successful in their own right?
To refer back to the new Mrs Windsor, she has never had a job in all her 30 years on this planet. Yet she has achieved success. How do we explain that to our daughters?
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| age, late 20s, early 30s. pastor's wives or teacher's wives. there goes that theory |
No, there doesn't go that theory. Not in the UK anyway. A state teacher half way up the pay grade working in outer London will earn about �30,000 which is 50% more than the national average and probably just enough to support other people (when you factor in state aid, child tax credit etc). People on and below the national average (the majority by definition) probably won't be able to support anyone else and in fact will probably be in receipt of state aid just to be able to live indoors (i.e. housing benefit).
Do I even need to go into life of luxury the religious class enjoy. �16,000 - �30,000 a year. And she can spend it all on shoes because the accommodation is free and all the expenses are covered by the church. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Guess the US and UK are different. AS for the religious stuff, each religion seems to have their own rules methinks. |
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Dedicated
Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 972
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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JimJam,
Just to put the record straight - Kate Middleton worked from November 2006 to 2008 as an accessory buyer with the clothing chain, Jigsaw. From 2006 until 2011 she worked part-time as a catalogue photographer and webpage designer (whilst training to be a professional photographer) for Party Pieces. |
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JimJam
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 69
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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We're obviously going way off topic but...
| Dedicated wrote: |
JimJam,
Just to put the record straight - Kate Middleton worked from November 2006 to 2008 as an accessory buyer with the clothing chain, Jigsaw. From 2006 until 2011 she worked part-time as a catalogue photographer and webpage designer (whilst training to be a professional photographer) for Party Pieces. |
You've clearly been doing some in depth research...on wikipedia. I suppose there's no way her PR agency could put anything on there so I won't argue with you.
Except to say that after spending thousands of pounds of public money on a university degree (this being at a time when fees were only �1000 a year and thus heavily subsidised by the tax payer, i.e. working people) she then couldn't be bothered to get a real job, she does have a rich daddy after all.
So, after 18 months of...nothing she got a job as a part-time assistant buyer for Jigsaw. She quit after only a few months unable to bear the strain of a 3 day week.
Whether she took a few photos for her parents and suggested a font for the website I have no idea. I suspect it was added to her rather sparse CV just to make it look like she actually did something with her life except shopping and...whatever else.
The only thing you forgot to copy and paste from wikipedia is my favourite bit:
In 2008, it was reported that she had quit her job at Jigsaw to become a professional photographer, intending to take private classes with photographer Mario Testino, who had taken several well-known photographs of Diana, Princess of Wales and her sons. Testino later denied that Middleton was going to be working for him.
Maybe she found out that photographers sometimes have to get up early in the morning.
[/rant]
Anyway, as I said she has no obligation to work. She's rich so she can just collect her rents and do whatever she wants. I just think this type of wishy washy indolent young woman makes a terrible example for our youth. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:42 am Post subject: Re: Don't do it long-term unless you have another source of |
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| JimJam wrote: |
| If many of your female friends don't work I would say it is more of a reflection of their age (i.e. baby boomer hogging all the resources) or socio economic class (i.e. they married/were born well). Globally it is not a feature of most women's life experiences any more than it is that of men's. |
A lot of women in Japan don't work, especially after they have kids. It's expected that they stay home and tend to home affairs (banking, shopping, cooking, cleaning, PTA, etc.). After kids have flown the nest, they are "available" for work again.
For example, my wife is in her 40s. She used to work, even the first couple of years after we had our child. That was rare. We were fortunate enough to find a daycare close to the in-laws so her family could pick up our child before either of us returned from work. Then we moved and she had to quit her job. Why?
No opportunities where we are now.
No time on her hands. Dealing with a child who gets home from kindergarten/daycare/elementary school in the middle of the afternoon puts a crimp in a work schedule. She is also a PTA leader (not by choice), and a chauffeur for our kid who attends after-school activities.
As much as we'd both like her to work, she just can't. And, she's not alone in that situation.
No surprise that the age for Japanese to get married is rising, simply because people want their freedom. Unfortunately, the younger set often do not want to work and are allowed to stay at home with parents until they marry. Sorry to continue this off-topic, but I thought the quote above deserved a bit of response. |
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