Job Discussion Forums

johntpartee · Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 3258

These examples:

fluffyhamster · Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:27 am Post subject:

Heh, I know it should've been obvious it was those examples, but my subtle point/hint was merely, if you're having problems seeing how 'nouny' those COBUILD hand-picked examples are, then you (and other readers) can perhaps appreciate how 'verby' I'm seeing that 'bending' as being LOL. And why I want to try and cull as many tricky points and terms as I can from this grammar I'm developing~writing in my head.

johntpartee · Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 3258

voun

nerb

gernoun

gerverb

gervoun

gernerb

fluffyhamster · Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:20 am Post subject:

fluffyhamster · Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:55 pm Post subject:

Hey Johntpartee (and anyone else who'd like to), maybe have a go at the following exercises (taken from the end of the 'Gerund' and 'Present participle' entries respectively in James Hurford's Grammar: A Student's Guide (CUP 1994~)):

johnslat · Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:08 am Post subject:

Dear fluffyhamster,

gerunds

1. shooting
2. moving
3. making
4. worrying

present participles used as adjectives

2. blazing / bleaching

4. having asked / keeping

present participle used as an adverb

3. burning

present participle used as part of a continuous/progressive tense

1. running

present participle used as gerunds

4. beginning

And, in the directions, the present participle used as adjectives

following / including

Regards,
John

fluffyhamster · Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:23 am Post subject:

Ooh, that was quick! Shall I wait a little longer though (just to give Johntpartee an opportunity) before I reveal the answers, Johnslat? It won't hurt (won't hurt Johntpartee, at least Smile

) however to reveal right now that, by neglecting to answer the first of the Present participle exercises, your score is unfortunately down on mine by 10% already. Very Happy

Maybe you can make up the points (and while away some of the potential wait) by analyzing these sentences:

Flying planes can be dangerous.
Visiting relatives can be tedious.
Analyzing grammar is a chore.
The shooting of the grammarian made more sense than the shooting of the hunters.

johnslat · Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:38 am Post subject:

Dear fluffyhamster,

The first three have two-word gerund phrases used as subjects of the sentences.

The fourth has a five-word gerund phrase as the subject and a five-word gerund phrase after "than".

Regards,
John

artemisia · Joined: 04 Nov 2008 Posts: 875 Location: the world

I may as well have a go. I agree with Johnslat except I think (1) �running� is a present participle and that (3) �burning� is a gerund. Hmm. Think the rest are gerunds. You sure are keen on testing, Fluffy!

johntpartee · Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 3258

I agree with johnslat except "shooting" is a present participle.

In the second "test", "Analyzing grammar is a chore" is true.

fluffyhamster · Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:58 am Post subject:

OK, here are the answers that Hurford gives:

'Gerund' set: 1 Shooting; 2 Moving; 3 making; 4 worrying.

'Present participle' set: 1 running; 2 blazing, bleaching; 3 burning; 4 having, keeping.

Nice work in the edit, John(slat)! I hope you know I was only joking with the -10% deduction. Wink

Heh, I'm not keen on testing really, Artemisia! I was just trying to give Johntpartee something to work with (not that I'm absolutely convinced he's that unclear on gerunds!), but that wasn't a complete walkover. I actually find the Hurford somewhat heavy-going in places (I mean the often quite involved discussion that precedes the exercises), especially when it looks at languages other than English. I think his book is probably somewhat more for linguistics students than English teachers. Don't get me wrong though, there's some interesting stuff in it, and his explanations can be easy enough to follow, for example:

fluffyhamster · Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:30 am Post subject:

fluffyhamster · Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:49 am Post subject:

Returning to the original sentence, the Intrasitive label for the 'bending' would make more sense if the wording was 'She looked at the trees, their branches bending and meeting the grass' than 'She looked at the trees, their branches bending to meet the grass'.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:23 am Post subject:

Sorry laddies, but I can see no problem with the original sentence pr its intransitive verb, and still don't know why there was such discussion over it.

fluffyhamster · Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:55 am Post subject:

Well, most of the discussion has actually rather been about whether that 'bending' is "even a verb", before then veering off into answering a query about gerunds, which are of course "completely unrelated". No skin off my nose either way (my keystroke-battered fingertips are another matter though!). Regarding the intransitive label, Glenski is also of that opinion that the 'bending', at least by itself, is intransitive (cf. ?'the branches bending the grass')). Me, I'm "not sure" (that is, if the 'bending' should be quite so disconnected from the 'to meet'), hence my asking.