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thatsforsure
Joined: 11 Sep 2012
Posts: 146
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 Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| i happen to know for a fact that many many UK student , both foreign and local , submit purchased essays and do very well in there classed at "top ranking" unis and lesser ranked ones as well , i am sure you are correct about your unis procedures but aparently they dont all do that . or they do it very rarely. you may be at a very unique university indeed . in the u.s. they are rarley challenged at all because the litigation is so common and the students dont mind filing suit . anyway it is a huge business in the western world, all countries |
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thatsforsure
Joined: 11 Sep 2012
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| plus the better essay writer mimick the clients style |
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RPMcMurphy
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 90
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Dedicated wrote: |
| They are rigorously grilled over references etc and usually it is clear that a student has not written it. Generally they confess and are failed. |
My students - the few that attempt it - learn very early that plagiarism, collusion and cheating in general are not worth it. Any teacher worthy of their profession knows what a student's real prose style is like and can spot unoriginal work easily. Getting thrown out of a course their parents have paid big money for, and even having their visa cancelled, are big risks not worth taking.
Can we please get back on topic, which is not cheating. And as previously noted, the inability to use their/there/they're correctly seems to be a native speaker error that the locals rarely fall for. How come? |
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RPMcMurphy
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 90
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:46 am Post subject: |
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| thatsforsure wrote: |
| plus the better essay writer mimick the clients style |
As a fifteen year old Hong Kong student of mine used to say when she first landed, "say what?". Who's the client in this scenario? Is that "essay writers mimick [sic]", or "essay writer mimicks [sic]?
Say what? |
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JamesD
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 934
Location: "As far as I'm concerned bacon comes from a magical happy place."
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:59 am Post subject: |
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| RPMcMurphy wrote: |
| And as previously noted, the inability to use their/there/they're correctly seems to be a native speaker error that the locals rarely fall for. How come? |
Just my theory, could it be because most of us (westerners) begin learning a language by listening and are concerned with the sounds; Chinese usually learn by reading/studying the written word? Consider how many westies are bad spellers while most Chinese have no trouble with spelling but mangle usage. |
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thatsforsure
Joined: 11 Sep 2012
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:58 am Post subject: |
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| if you dont believe that a MASSIVE industry exists to serve these students, very succesfuly, with there writing , google "the Shadow Scholar" at cronicle of Higher Education where it is all layed out in detail |
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Lobster
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 2040
Location: Somewhere under the Sea
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:29 am Post subject: |
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Regarding the spaces before punctuation marks. This is the result of using a Chinese version of Word. The software sees a punctuation mark as a character and inserts a space between it and the character before. Students need to be told to go back and delete the space before the punctuation mark and insert one after the mark.
Students need to be taught the basics of sentence contruction in order to create longer pieces of writing. That, and some style issues, are not too difficult to deal with. The problem of vocabulary choices and collocations is a much more difficult area. Only extensive reading for structure and vocabulary is going to help them in the long run.
RED |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| Lobster wrote: |
| Regarding the spaces before punctuation marks. This is the result of using a Chinese version of Word. The software sees a punctuation mark as a character and inserts a space between it and the character before. Students need to be told to go back and delete the space before the punctuation mark and insert one after the mark. |
This is one of my pet peeves on written work prepared on a computer, and I wondered why I kept getting work with a space before but not after punctuation. I thought it might have something to do with the obsession of using full justification for everything. . . but your post seems to be on the mark as well. Now I know how to deal with this. |
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wonderingjoesmith
Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 910
Location: Guangzhou
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| 7969 wrote: |
| I've taught ~ 1600 English Education majors over the past seven years. Of that total number there are only two that I know of that went abroad to study further. The goal of the writing class isn't to teach the student to turn out a 40 page essay at a foreign university (most are not going there). The primary goal is to help the students improve enough so that they can pass the writing component of the TEM4 - write a 50-60 word note/notice, and a short composition (250-300 words/5 paras) on some topic. If given proper instruction on writing most of them can achieve this. Secondary goals can vary. |
There may be some difference in foreign teachers' approach to facilitating courses in writing where creative writing is taught. Academic writing is not the same ball game and not as flexible in a few areas. I doubt the amount of pages is as important.
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7969 wrote:
I read an article a few months back in which a Canadian university professor acknowledged that since foreign students speak English with an accent, he was willing to accept essays that were written with an accent. As long as the main ideas could be understood he didn't seem to have a problem with mistakes like "play computer." I've tried to find that article again so I could elaborate more but I don't remember where I saw it.
When we get to essay writing in our class I don't correct every error either. I make note of the more serious mistakes or ones that render a sentence or paragraph unreadable, but most of the minor errors I let slide. I'm not trying to turn them into professional writers; I see my goal as just trying to get them to express ideas in a coherent way.
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This is quite contentious although I bet many, inclusive me, agree on the issue of main ideas and coherance there. Though "accents" may be highly subjective to grade.
In my first 100 or so mainland essays that students have turned in, I have noticed some worrying issues to pay attention to. One is the unintelligible phrases/expressions. The writing assignments suggest that many local students burn their electronic dictionaries when writing. Their main ideas, thesis statements, are illegible, and then their supporting details in paragraphs are often difficult, if not impossible, to decipher. Introductions and conclusions in such written responses are greatly affected then too. To me, grading such work is highly subjective.
I am learning how to deal with issues of locals in writing and I've got to say the posters' contributions on the topic are actually helpful for me.
Last edited by wonderingjoesmith on Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:39 am; edited 2 times in total |
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thatsforsure
Joined: 11 Sep 2012
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| joe smith most likely what your looking at is, theyve wrote something in chinese then electronic translated it , or theyve copied from the web and translated it , or similar. when you see all that crazy writing a lot of time they havent done a lick of work themself |
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RPMcMurphy
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 90
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| How about a new thread for thatsforsure, entitled Errors in Teacher Writing? |
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colonel
Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 89
Location: Nanyang and Cha-Am
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| RPMcMurphy wrote: |
| How about a new thread for thatsforsure, entitled Errors in Teacher Writing? |
 I'll wager he doesn't have a worthwhile degree. |
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MisterButtkins
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Posts: 1221
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:52 am Post subject: |
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My brother is a biologist and taught classes for awhile at a uni in the US. One girl in his class turned in a paper with a paragraph cut and pasted from an encyclopedia article he had written. Yeah, she failed the class.
Oh, the girl was a white American. |
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Shroob
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 1339
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| MisterButtkins wrote: |
My brother is a biologist and taught classes for awhile at a uni in the US. One girl in his class turned in a paper with a paragraph cut and pasted from an encyclopedia article he had written. Yeah, she failed the class.
Oh, the girl was a white American. |
In China that student would be awarded an A.  |
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thatsforsure
Joined: 11 Sep 2012
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| you all are gettin bent out of shape over nothing .. its just a forum not " War And Peace " , any way generaly in china is Oral english , not writing. as i said in some cases writing is taught , but the standard is not peticularly high so it is not worth concerning over |
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