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jkozera
Joined: 09 Jan 2015
Posts: 90
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 Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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Attending a morning meeting every day (which most teachers do not do) and cleaning the classroom after hours has nothing to do with methodology, pedagogy, lesson planning, or education. They have everything to do with the interests of the company.
This is a Japan thing. ALL teachers in Japan do this though you said most teachers don't do. dude you got canned and obviously couldn't handle AEON. Try another company in Japan before commenting on AEON and then come back with a different perspective
| rslrunner wrote: |
| rtm wrote: |
| rslrunner wrote: |
| If it's not a big deal to clean, why not put that responsibility as part of a typical day on the website? |
Because then they'd have to state that they require 42.5 hours of work per week, which might turn off potential applicants. We all understand that you want transparency, and we all agree that the hours add up to more than the 40 hours per week stated on the web site.
However, that doesn't bother most of us.
I suppose it is somewhat sad that a part of the teaching profession around the world is that we all expect to work more than the 40 hours per week that are typically indicated in contracts. But, that is the reality, and those of us who enjoy being teachers are wiling to do that. Your fight for adequate compensation for teachers and transparency in expectations is noble, but I think basing such a campaign on the 15 minutes of cleaning time at AEON is not the right place to start. |
Obviously I disagree with you on many different levels about this, but one of them is related to expectations for being a teacher.
You see, the additional responsibilities and work hours that are mandated above and beyond the 40 hours originally promised have nothing to do with teaching .
Attending a morning meeting every day (which most teachers do not do) and cleaning the classroom after hours has nothing to do with methodology, pedagogy, lesson planning, or education. They have everything to do with the interests of the company.
Again, I have no problem with these responsibilities. Just don't say that the work adds up to 40 hours a week.
You should not say work is 40 hours a week, in print, for prospective employees if that is not your intent.
If it doesn't bother you that the company is deliberately misleading people, and someone tell me if that is not the case, fine.
But nobody should have to be mislead in the first place.
The offending page with the deliberate inaccuracy is STILL online:
http://www.aeonet.com/life-at-aeon/expectations-and-responsibilities/
You want me to stop talking about this? Simple solution: Aeon must stop providing inaccurate information for prospective employees. I don't think this is an unreasonable request. |
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Lamarr
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| jkozera wrote: |
| This is a Japan thing. ALL teachers in Japan do this though you said most teachers don't do. dude you got canned and obviously couldn't handle AEON. Try another company in Japan before commenting on AEON and then come back with a different perspective. |
I've worked at various different eikaiwa, and none of them required instructors to clean. Children clean at schools, and sometimes the teachers help out a bit, though the kids do most of it.
If Aeon instructors wanted to be nit-picky, they could actually probably claim for cleaning time (or any other additional duties) at the end of the month and get paid for it. There was a dispute over pay at an English school I worked at a few years back. The teachers were recommended by the Labor Standards Office to claim overtime for any extra work they did in a month, over and above what was stipulated in the contract. They did just that, and this particular company was forced to pay them extra for duties like setting and marking tests, counselling students and so on.
That's the law. Any Aeon teachers (or any other teachers for that matter) interested in that should speak to the Labor Standards Office about it. |
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rslrunner
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Lamarr wrote: |
| jkozera wrote: |
| This is a Japan thing. ALL teachers in Japan do this though you said most teachers don't do. dude you got canned and obviously couldn't handle AEON. Try another company in Japan before commenting on AEON and then come back with a different perspective. |
I've worked at various different eikaiwa, and none of them required instructors to clean. Children clean at schools, and sometimes the teachers help out a bit, though the kids do most of it.
If Aeon instructors wanted to be nit-picky, they could actually probably claim for cleaning time (or any other additional duties) at the end of the month and get paid for it. There was a dispute over pay at an English school I worked at a few years back. The teachers were recommended by the Labor Standards Office to claim overtime for any extra work they did in a month, over and above what was stipulated in the contract. They did just that, and this particular company was forced to pay them extra for duties like setting and marking tests, counselling students and so on.
That's the law. Any Aeon teachers (or any other teachers for that matter) interested in that should speak to the Labor Standards Office about it. |
There is nothing wrong with asking a teacher to clean.
It is completely and utterly wrong to ask any employee to clean, daily, and refusing to pay people for it.
Even though the website has been redone, Aeon STILL clings to the idea that employees work 40 hours a week.
Here is the site:
http://www.aeonet.com/about-aeon/contract-stipulations-benefits/
Here is what Aeon specifically says:
Work Hours
School hours vary from 10:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. A Typical workweek is Tuesday – Saturday. Teachers work a total of 40 hours per week which includes 25 teaching hours. Actual work schedules are assigned by the Branch School Manager.
Cleaning occurs after work hours every day. Which means that this cleaning work is unpaid overtime, or it is not even considered work at all that still has to be completed.
I would suggest that before going to the Labor Standards Office, before even going to a group interview, contact Aeon first. Ask them, "Is rslrunner correct in saying that cleaning responsibilities occur after work hours? If the answer is yes, why don't you just say so on the website?"
You won't get hired.
It would be fascinating to see if you could get a straight answer to a simple question.
[/i] |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| But it does state the cleaning requirements, just on another section of the webpage (the 'Your School' bit, which closes with 'All our schools are quite compact, and since we do not have janitorial services, it is important for the staff to maintain the cleanliness of the school at all times'). I don't think the average applicant will neglect to read every section or be unable to read between the lines, and as the majority of the work involves teaching with whatever day-to-day cleaning likely not that onerous (Japanese people are generally very neat and tidy), Aeon can probably be forgiven for not repeatedly stressing the janitorial aspects. |
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jkozera
Joined: 09 Jan 2015
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 6:58 am Post subject: |
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did you work at an eikawa or an actual school? I highly doubt the adult students who are paying to go to the eikawa are going to clean after their lesson. its not like you're deep cleaning the classroom, you vacuum, clean the white boards and wipe down a few tables. takes like 5 to 10 min and yes you ARE paid to clean.
| Lamarr wrote: |
| jkozera wrote: |
| This is a Japan thing. ALL teachers in Japan do this though you said most teachers don't do. dude you got canned and obviously couldn't handle AEON. Try another company in Japan before commenting on AEON and then come back with a different perspective. |
I've worked at various different eikaiwa, and none of them required instructors to clean. Children clean at schools, and sometimes the teachers help out a bit, though the kids do most of it.
If Aeon instructors wanted to be nit-picky, they could actually probably claim for cleaning time (or any other additional duties) at the end of the month and get paid for it. There was a dispute over pay at an English school I worked at a few years back. The teachers were recommended by the Labor Standards Office to claim overtime for any extra work they did in a month, over and above what was stipulated in the contract. They did just that, and this particular company was forced to pay them extra for duties like setting and marking tests, counselling students and so on.
That's the law. Any Aeon teachers (or any other teachers for that matter) interested in that should speak to the Labor Standards Office about it. |
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rslrunner
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| jkozera wrote: |
did you work at an eikawa or an actual school? I highly doubt the adult students who are paying to go to the eikawa are going to clean after their lesson. its not like you're deep cleaning the classroom, you vacuum, clean the white boards and wipe down a few tables. takes like 5 to 10 min and yes you ARE paid to clean.
| Lamarr wrote: |
| jkozera wrote: |
| This is a Japan thing. ALL teachers in Japan do this though you said most teachers don't do. dude you got canned and obviously couldn't handle AEON. Try another company in Japan before commenting on AEON and then come back with a different perspective. |
I've worked at various different eikaiwa, and none of them required instructors to clean. Children clean at schools, and sometimes the teachers help out a bit, though the kids do most of it.
If Aeon instructors wanted to be nit-picky, they could actually probably claim for cleaning time (or any other additional duties) at the end of the month and get paid for it. There was a dispute over pay at an English school I worked at a few years back. The teachers were recommended by the Labor Standards Office to claim overtime for any extra work they did in a month, over and above what was stipulated in the contract. They did just that, and this particular company was forced to pay them extra for duties like setting and marking tests, counselling students and so on.
That's the law. Any Aeon teachers (or any other teachers for that matter) interested in that should speak to the Labor Standards Office about it. |
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I, and nobody else, objects to the cleaning requirement.
What is completely objectionable is making this work requirement a daily task that extends beyond the 40 hour workweek.
You are NOT paid to clean, because this work, by default, is unpaid overtime.
They are deliberately telling the public that a workweek is 40 hours, when they have no intention of having their employees work this long.
Of course, all of this could be solved if Aeon would stop telling the world that its workweek is 40 hours long.
Perhaps this is a litmus test to see how much they can mold new employees..... |
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moviefan1987
Joined: 23 Nov 2015
Posts: 25
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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Dude, seriously, you worked for Aeon for just 3.5 days. You never cleaned any Aeon classrooms.
I have been a teacher both at home in the US and here in Japan. At all my teaching jobs, the teachers tidied up their rooms at the end of the day. It's part of the job, though it wasn't in our contracts. Cleaning up is a normal thing that humans do. |
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rslrunner
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| moviefan1987 wrote: |
Dude, seriously, you worked for Aeon for just 3.5 days. You never cleaned any Aeon classrooms.
I have been a teacher both at home in the US and here in Japan. At all my teaching jobs, the teachers tidied up their rooms at the end of the day. It's part of the job, though it wasn't in our contracts. Cleaning up is a normal thing that humans do. |
I did clean one classroom. That was the only thing I felt comfortable doing, actually, as I didn't have to remember who to be or what to say.
One cleans the whole center with colleagues for 15-20 minutes a day, after work. Not just the whole classroom.
Again, for the umpteenth time, I don't object to this. At all.
I do object, and everyone else should be aware of this, that this work is unpaid overtime, because it is above and beyond the mandated 40 hours.
Who says that one works 40 hours in the first place? The company does.
Solution 1: acknowledge that the cleaning is unpaid overtime.
Solution 2: don't tell the entire the world on a website that one has to work a 40-hour schedule, when there is no intention for anyone to work a 40 hour schedule a week.
I keep making this simple point because clarity and transparency and sincerity are important values, and people should not say things that are demonstrably false.
But, if anyone wants to continue to rephrase my point so that it sounds like I am making another argument entirely, well, I guess go right ahead. |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:59 am Post subject: |
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| rslrunner wrote: |
| I did clean one classroom. That was the only thing I felt comfortable doing, actually, as I didn't have to remember who to be or what to say. |
There's the answer right there - you should've been a cleaner rather than a teacher!
Seriously though, teaching is never just about "being yourself", important though it is IMHO to at least sometimes personalize the/your input somewhat. |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:15 am Post subject: |
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Rslrunner said
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I did clean one classroom. That was the only thing I felt comfortable doing, actually, as I didn't have to remember who to be or what to say. |
In Japanese culture, cleanliness isn't next to godliness. It's a sacramental activity. Read up on Shinto and ritual cleanliness if you don't already know about this.
Cleaning together is a great leveler and a chance for bonding with people. It's also a chance to wind down and reflect on your working day, or in the case of annual "osoji", big cleaning, prepares you mentally for a new year.
When you're a teacher anywhere in the world, you take on an important societal role that comes with behaviours, attitudes and even a uniform and lifestyle. On top of the image and role of the teacher in wider Japanese culture, you represent the school culture of the institution you work in, which has its own flavour and mission.
Anywhere in the world, a teacher is a model of the attitudes, ethics and expectations of the society around them. Authenticity is important, but depending on the school culture, a teacher may have more or less "freedom" to let it all hang out. Also, as you grow roots in an institution, you grow in your identity as a teacher. The teacher and the institution by turns mould each other.
There are healthy and toxic institutions to work in. Aeon isn't a particularly healthy one, as it prescribes questionable methods, and has more concern for appearances and bottom line than education.
Choose wisely. |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:31 am Post subject: |
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Liz, you've clearly gone native!
What I want to know is, do dojo(s) clearly state that cleaning will be required before and/or after practice? If not, I think you have every right to claiming back a percentage of the training fees, cos otherwise you're actually PAYING to clean!!
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:14 am Post subject: |
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In the last 12 years of training here in Japan (and the 10 years before that in my home town) I have paid in blood (sprains, bruises, cracked bones, etc.), sweat and tears. And I and the other minions do errands, clean floors, toilets, dust the kamidana and polish all the acutrements, translate for visitors (English, French, Spanish to Japanese and back), carry sensei's gear, fetch sensei's shoes for him (and even put them on him after training, as he's worn out) answer his mail, drive him to and from, put up with his oyaji gags, and look majime when the media come in to shoot video and interview us and Sensei. And then we have to foot the bill at enkais and wear suits and bow and say yoroshiku onegaishimasu. While sitting seiza.
We have to accommodate all this Japanese culture stuff. It's like we're brainwashed in a cult or something. |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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So the worm is never going to turn and give Master Dingbat a kick in the kintama?   |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| Our senseis are amazing fountains of martial knowledge and Japanese history. And we respect them because they live the martial philosophy they teach. The senseis. |
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